Tssss, no save

[JemyM]

I just gave up on Bard's Tale after giving up on Fable. Same reason for both: No save function >_<

I do not want to see the same stuff over and over and if I want a special challenge I play Tetris. No save function cater to youngsters without a real life and I do not qualify.

Just wanted to rant.

[Moriendor]

True that. Shitty console ports should be punished by the death penalty (low voltage electric chair to make it extra fun) :biggrin: .

[txa1265]

No save function cater to youngsters without a real life and I do not qualify.

I don't know if I agree with that, as the 'console kiddies' now average ~25-30 ... and no-save (or checkpoint soft-save) is definitely a console artifact.

Completely annoying, I agree!

Oh, just thought - I was playing the Eragon GBA game and even *that* lets you save anywhere except during combat ...

[Dhruin]

Agreed. Anytimes saves is an absolute requirement for me.

[txa1265]

Agreed. Anytimes saves is an absolute requirement for me.

I've traded 'absolute requirements' for 'infinite annoyances' ... so instead of missing out on games, I just get annoyed while playing them - and convince myself it is better that way ;)

[Acleacius]

I agree as well, though I did play both of these titles mostly for the humor, both games can be made to actually save anytime, well almost
It's been so long I am having trouble remembering, 6 months or more in game time is an eternity.
Iir, Fable uses respawning levels and basically each level takes 5 minutes or less since they are scaled monsters based on your skills and magic.
The best way to handle it is to always stop your game at the start of a level where it saves and you will always start where you left off, so it can easily be controlled.

The game that really annoyed me was Far Cry which considering all the history of the development was very interesting game.
Billed as open-end game allowing you to take different paths and approaches with no freaking Quick save, you had actually travel the exact paths they wanted you to or you don't get saves.
This made the game take twice as long, as I would do my own way then run around looking for save points, which totally takes you out of the game experience

[magerette]

I've never understood this concept of not letting you save--what is it supposed to be for? People who don't want to save for whatever reason are under no compulsion to do so normally, so why make it a game function for everyone?

There is nothing more boring and exasperating than replaying a whole level because you forgot to save and died an ignomious death, but at least it was your own stupid fault. When the game sets you up to fail like this, it hardly would seem to motivate you to play.

Does anybody like it this way? I've never played that type of game, so I may be missing out on it's advantages.

[curious]

i remember when i first played thief years ago. made it through cragscleft before i realized you could save...good thing i was playing on normal. was bloody tough though!

[JemyM]

The game that really annoyed me was Far Cry which considering all the history of the development was very interesting game.
Billed as open-end game allowing you to take different paths and approaches with no freaking Quick save, you had actually travel the exact paths they wanted you to or you don't get saves.
This made the game take twice as long, as I would do my own way then run around looking for save points, which totally takes you out of the game experience

I had forgotten about this. I actually used a hack that enabled quicksave wherever I was. I do not think I would have enjoyed the game as much as I did if I couldnt.

[txa1265]

I've never understood this concept of not letting you save--what is it supposed to be for? People who don't want to save for whatever reason are under no compulsion to do so normally, so why make it a game function for everyone?

There is nothing more boring and exasperating than replaying a whole level because you forgot to save and died an ignomious death, but at least it was your own stupid fault. When the game sets you up to fail like this, it hardly would seem to motivate you to play.

Does anybody like it this way? I've never played that type of game, so I may be missing out on it's advantages.

The only one I think of that I liked was Dark Forces - because it was well designed for a no-save completion of the levels ... and because the levels were so freakin' good!

[Corwin]

I think I mentioned this in the review I wrote for BT!! There is ONE thing worse than playing a level and then dying right near the end before you can save; having to wade through 10 minutes of dialogue and cut scenes first, before you can replay the level/battle-EVERYTIME!!

[enodenroH]

I just gave up on Bard's Tale after giving up on Fable. Same reason for both: No save function >_<

I do not want to see the same stuff over and over and if I want a special challenge I play Tetris. No save function cater to youngsters without a real life and I do not qualify.

I've played so many games that didn't have any save fonction. A lot were console games from the Nintendo era. Mega man, Contra and the likes. These were very popular 2D sidescrollers in the late 80s and early 90s... Because I am no good with hand eye coordination, it took me quite some time to finish them.

Because of the stress I developped throughout the years, having to restart whole levels over and over again, I have also developped anger. I get infuriated when I have to restart when I haven't saved in 10 minutes or so.

Nowadays, if the game doesn't have a save fonction, you can bet your tuchas I'm not gonna touch it. I can't recall any game (that had no save fonction) that was good enough for me to play to put aside my fear.

I'm the kind of player that saves every second or so... I HATE having to do something I have already done.

I also like to rant. Sometimes... :)

[Acleacius]

magerette
No you have it exactly right, it's nothing but their egos. :)

Corwin
"having to wade through 10 minutes of dialogue and cut scenes first,"
Oh man that's bad, defiantly banged some keys over that. ;)
What about not being able to skip cutscenes that last 5 or 10 min you seen before that you can't skip! :(
What did Ken Levine say in that interview lately about that, "We hate you, stop forcing us to watch your cutscenes.".
Hehe. :)

JemyM
I did the same thing. :)

enodenroH
Hehe, reminds me of playing in arcades and pizza parlors before we had PCs.

[JemyM]

A lot were console games from the Nintendo era. Mega man, Contra and the likes. These were very popular 2D sidescrollers in the late 80s and early 90s... Because I am no good with hand eye coordination, it took me quite some time to finish them.

I remember thoose years. I believe we could bother about replaying the same over and over because frankly we did not have any alternative, and a whole game could be finished in 20-30 minutes if you knew how.

Today games have alot in common with movies and it can take several days to get through one of them.

[enodenroH]

I remember thoose years. I believe we could bother about replaying the same over and over because frankly we did not have any alternative, and a whole game could be finished in 20-30 minutes if you knew how.
Today games have alot in common with movies and it can take several days to get through one of them.

Yup. Once you got the hang of them you could manage to complete them in less than an hour indeed.
Once I played a few Nintendo emulated games on my PC. Their file size weren't even 1 MB!!! Some of them were just over 500 K!!! And they sold them for over 50$!!!
Well, they were high tech at the time I guess...

It's a good thing that today's games have a save feature otherwise I'd either not be playing crpg's anymore or I'd be in a mental institution. :lol:

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I loved the RTS called Z. It was really fun. But is was *very* difficult.

I once read why it was so : Because one of the devs said, they knew the game so well they didn't realize how difficult it was for gamers ...

Well, the kind of add-on let you chose a difficulty level ... - to bad that was windows only back then. I know from an e-mail that the devs had created an DOS-version of the add-on, but GT interactive wanted it to be windows. So they never released the DOS version of it.

Combined with a fixed resolution that never let me zoom close enough to actually see the robots behaving (or being run over by a tank :D ) my interest quickly dropped on that.

[GothicGothicness]

I think saving should be banned from all RPG's! Diablo 2 style.

Now you can just make a choice.. and if you are not happy with it load, and make another choice. During dialogues that are supposed to be tricky to complete or riddles you just load and save until you get it right. In the mini-games you just win, get the gold, save, load again, play get the gold save, repeat. If you die you just load, never lose any XP never any items. If you commit a crime and get caught you just load your save. This also removes all excitement from the game.. oooops I died okay I will just load no problem.

HORRIBLE! Saving really puts a high restriction on RPG's and ruins them in many ways. HOWEVER, the way it is done in Fable and Bard's Tale is NOT the way to do it. It sounds like the majority of you disagree... but at least you have to agree I have some valid points above!

[Corwin]

Valid only for your playstyle!! Most people would find re-playing large sections of a game very tedious and frustrating if that were necessary every time they died for example. If I wanted that 'joy'. I'd play FPS games where you only save after completing a level.

I tend to agree with your point about consequences of choices, though I understand some people save and replay choices simply to 'see all the game has to offer'!! I guess the bottom line is to play any game in a manner YOU enjoy!! :)

[Cormac]

You do have some good points. Personally I never save before opening a chest with random treasure in it so I'm certain to get the best stuff or before an important meeting with a (an?) NPC, for example; I try to live with my (often bad) decisions.
However I think it's necessary to be able to save everywhere, simply because games nowadays are awfully buggy, and at times they crash, etc., and losing one's progress so that you need to replay a part of the game is rather disheartening.

[roqua]

Anytime saves are for women, unless the game is ironman. So I guess anytime save/reload is for women, and anytime save with ironman is good. There is nothing like knowing if your party wipes that is it. Playing a game with anytime save/reload is like playing poker for air. There is no risk and no reward. In order to "win" or feel like you accomplished something, or to even feel fear or worry, there must be risk. Games have turned into a mindless tedium that you just have to get through. No skill, no thought, no plan, just keep clicking and you will get to the end. That is hippy crap. Why waste your time? At least if you watch TV you don't have to worry about bad joints from clicking too much.

What is really disheartening is buying a AAA rpg, putting it on the highest challange rating, and blowing through combat like katrina in LA. Why even bother? I can beat every rpg released from Bio by putting the mouse in my asscrack and dancing to the oldies with Richard Simmons.

No pain no gain. No risk no reward. No challenge no accomplishment. No sacrifice no honor. Etc. You guys need to man up, install ToEE or Wiz, click on ironman, and see what good is.

[roqua]

I think saving should be banned from all RPG's! Diablo 2 style.

Now you can just make a choice.. and if you are not happy with it load, and make another choice. During dialogues that are supposed to be tricky to complete or riddles you just load and save until you get it right. In the mini-games you just win, get the gold, save, load again, play get the gold save, repeat. If you die you just load, never lose any XP never any items. If you commit a crime and get caught you just load your save. This also removes all excitement from the game.. oooops I died okay I will just load no problem.

HORRIBLE! Saving really puts a high restriction on RPG's and ruins them in many ways. HOWEVER, the way it is done in Fable and Bard's Tale is NOT the way to do it. It sounds like the majority of you disagree... but at least you have to agree I have some valid points above!

Thats right. You are a sharp girl.

[curious]

anytime saves are for women.
anytime men are for roqua.

i have no desire to argue or converse with you roqua and would stay out of any of your posts but if you can't do it without insulting someone then i see it as fair game, like throwing rotten vegtables at a bad stage performer.

[xSamhainx]

Professor Roqua may be somewhat unconventional in his hypothesis, but I pretty much agree with it's conclusion - manic saving is for the weak. However, I do think that it should be left up to the player to decide whether he or she wants to be a sissy or not, so in the end I'm an advocate of the omni-save.

Not to mention (but I'll mention it anyway) some games tend to randomly crash, so I would also point out that omni-save in these types of situations can really be a "save" indeed. I probably never would have finished Morrowind had it not been for my random paranoia saves.

[Corwin]

My main objection to roqua's comments is the insult he flung at Hippies!! I resemble that remark!! :)

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I probably never would have finished Morrowind had it not been for my random paranoia saves.


Very True, I save around every 5 minutes in morrowind, and back up my saves at the end of a session. :D

I believe I should be able to save where and when I want. I hardly ever reload, exept when I die. I defenitely won't reload for loot or dialog options, I have to say.

As for Roqua's "Anytime saves are for women", maybe he's right. For women and people with actual lifes. ;)
I'm sorry, but Fable really turned me off with the Save system (well, not just that, but that's beside the point here), especially once I had to do the arena fights, I never made it past those.
I want to be able to save and exit whenever it suits me. I can't delay dinner, not pick up the kids, tell the little one to get lost when she wants to play snakes and ladders, and so on, just because I have to find the next Save point! No, I need to be able to save wherever I want, whenever I want, so I can pick up where I left, else I'll never finish a game.

I suppose it is one of the main reasons I just can't get into console gaming, I hate having Save points forced on me.

A system like Diablo's annoys me as well, and I keep making seperate backups. I suppose I've had so many corrupted saves with games like Morrowind, that I am weary of having just 1 Save in a game. :)

[Acleacius]

There's nothing like having someone whom lives in a bubble making decisions for everyone else, right? :p

[txa1265]

Anytime saves are for women, unless the game is ironman. So I guess anytime save/reload is for women, and anytime save with ironman is good
And sexist remarks like these are for the small-minded, which you apparently are.

[GothicGothicness]

nowadays are awfully buggy, and at times they crash,

I said saving done right, this means that the game always saves but there's no loading. Thus on a crash you continue where you left off. Bugs however makes this feature impossible especially game breaking bugs... but I don't think a newly realeased game should have that amount of bugs... and having this system would force them to release the games in a better shape.

With saving done right, I also don't mean replaying an entire part when you die! Nor do I mean ironman, that is only for the really hard-core players.

When you die in Ultima 7, you start in a chapel and you even get on a new story-line...... in other games you get to go to a kind of netherworld were you can find items not possible to find at other places. Upon completing this "world" you get back to where you were in the game... however you might lose some XP or items etc. The idea of having to replay the exactly same large part over and over is not fun in most RPG's. I am talking about handling this in the right way!

By the way I find Roqua funny... not really insulting.

[Delirious Nomad]

There are games allowing you to abuse the save system. If you don't like the outcome of a battle or a negotiation you simply quickload and do not live with the consequences like a man :) and living with the consequences might turn out as the most fun you had with a game in years.

[magerette]

My main objection to roqua's comments is the insult he flung at Hippies!! I resemble that remark!! :)


I really doubt roqua is old enough to have any clear idea of what a hippy is or is not. Someone too lazy to take a risk?Sitting in a Chicago lock-up for protesting the 1967 Democratic convention, watching people getting beat up by cops for trying to protest a morally bankrupt war--oh, no, there was no risk there.

roqua I also am not offended by the woman remark, but I think you mean "druggie", not hippy.

[roqua]

As for Roqua's "Anytime saves are for women", maybe he's right. For women and people with actual lifes. ;)
I'm sorry, but Fable really turned me off with the Save system (well, not just that, but that's beside the point here), especially once I had to do the arena fights, I never made it past those.
I want to be able to save and exit whenever it suits me. I can't delay dinner, not pick up the kids, tell the little one to get lost when she wants to play snakes and ladders, and so on, just because I have to find the next Save point! No, I need to be able to save wherever I want, whenever I want, so I can pick up where I left, else I'll never finish a game.

Ironman will save aand exit when it suits you. I have a family also, but when I play a game, I play it with both my Humongous testicles flapping between my legs that want a challenge. I’m with you that console games are stupid though, but I don’t think the problem with the games you play is the save options, its actually the games themselves.

anytime saves are for women.
anytime men are for roqua.

i have no desire to argue or converse with you roqua and would stay out of any of your posts but if you can't do it without insulting someone then i see it as fair game, like throwing rotten vegtables at a bad stage performer.

PLEASE STOP!!! Your insults hurt bad and are not confusing at all.

My main objection to roqua's comments is the insult he flung at Hippies!! I resemble that remark!!

Well, I guess it's time to put down the refer, get a job, and stop saving and reloading every three seconds, you damn hippy.

And sexist remarks like these are for the small-minded, which you apparently are.

Maybe this was a failure a communication. When I said women I meant those that are weak of mind and body, the sissy pansies, which includes a majority of the population of men. Especially those that save/reload a lot or drink flavored coffee or mixed drinks and use hair products. Maybe if I just used the term girl you wouldn’t have found any offense in my statement?

And if sexist remarks are for the small minded, what are regular insulting remarks like yours for, the intellectuals?

GothicGothicness,

You are a true man, despite the fact that you are a female. You have more grit, gumption, guts, and testosterone in your little finger than most people born with a penis have in their whole labia. Most people fail to understand that being a man has nothing to do with physical appearance and genitalia, it’s the innate qualities that make someone deserving of the title. What makes a king out of a slave? What makes the flag on the mast to wave? What makes the elephant charge his tusk in the misty mist, or the dusky dusk? What makes the muskrat guard his musk? What makes the sphinx the seventh wonder? What makes the dawn come up like thunder? What makes the Hottentot so hot? What puts the "ape" in apricot? What don’t they have that we got?

P.s. I do see the irony in quoting from the Wizard of Oz in a paragraph devoted to manly qualities. Man-up Ladies.

[roqua]

I really doubt roqua is old enough to have any clear idea of what a hippy is or is not. Someone too lazy to take a risk?Sitting in a Chicago lock-up for protesting the 1967 Democratic convention, watching people getting beat up by cops for trying to protest a morally bankrupt war--oh, no, there was no risk there.

roqua I also am not offended by the woman remark, but I think you mean "druggie", not hippy.

Maybe you didn't read the last sidequest thread on this site. Labels, like hippy and rpg, do not have to have any attachment or correlation to their historic meaning. Hippy now means people that save/reload a lot when playing rpgs. And rpg now means any video game made. Get with the times.

[GothicGothicness]

and living with the consequences might turn out as the most fun you had with a game in years.

This is yet another one of my points. You might think that being arrested and losing all your items sucks! So you just load, but you might be missing the most exciting escape in any game ever.

[txa1265]

Maybe this was a failure a communication. When I said women I meant those that are weak of mind and body, the sissy pansies, which includes a majority of the population of men. Especially those that save/reload a lot or drink flavored coffee or mixed drinks and use hair products. Maybe if I just used the term girl you wouldn’t have found any offense in my statement?
You clearly don't get it - associating weakness of mind and body with any particular gender, race or other such generalization is demonstrably wrong. The failure is entirely yours.

And if sexist remarks are for the small minded, what are regular insulting remarks like yours for, the intellectuals?
Actually, I made the obvservation that sexist remarks, racist remarks and other such things are the hallmarks of those small-minded individuals without intellectual prowess to form an actual argument, and that by using such remarks you give appearances that tie you to such individuals.

[roqua]

I disagree. Racist, sexist, or any other type of bigoted remarks are hilarious and make the world go round.

[txa1265]

I disagree. Racist, sexist, or any other type of bigoted remarks are hilarious and make the world go round.

OK, so long as we are clear that you are a troll with no ideas to be taken seriously ...

[roqua]

Sure, sounds good to me.

[txa1265]

Whew ... now with that out of the way ...

I look at the need for insta-saves as being indicative of poor level design on the part of the developers. On big open game, I don't know the best system, but there has to be something better than 'iterating to success'.

Overall I think that a difficulty system tied to saves isn't bad ..

[JemyM]

If I want a challenge I play tetris. If I want consequences I play tabletop rpg, there you have infinite opportunities to set things right if something bad happens, in RPG's dialogue is often awful enough that you do not always know if a dialogue option is intended as insult or compliment (since you do not know the tone of the voice when the line is said).

I play computergames almost exclusively for the fun ride and the story.
A challenge worth something to me is buying myself a house or having a child. Computer games can never get close to that.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

And sexist remarks like these are for the small-minded, which you apparently are.

This is very much my own impression as well.

Someone once said to me : *Real* strength is when you can be weak.

[Corwin]

Let's drop all the personal comments/attacks please!!