RPGWatch Feature: Divinity 2 Review

[Dhruin]

Divine Divinity is a classic that uniquely combines Ultima with hack'n'slash combat. With the move to full 3D and consoles, how does the sequel stack up? Our review has two complete opinions - one from Corwin, and one from txa1265. Here's a sample:
Having detailed my frustrations, let me outline why I think this should be considered as one of the most enjoyable games released in 2009. For my first 20-30 hours or so, I found this game to be an absolute blast. It drew me away from Dragon Age: Origins and kept me playing. The game makes much of your eventually getting a Dragon Tower, but don’t rush it - the first half of the game is easily the best. Once I got my tower, all the things I really love about rpg’s virtually disappeared and I was left with an action/aerial combat game.
Head here to read it all (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=144&ref=0&id=67).
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=14429)

[Maylander]

Nice one. Agree with most of it, especially about the 1st/2nd half. I was looking forward to the Tower/Dragon so much, I ended up rushing to get it, which made me lose out on quite a few quests and what not. During my 2nd playthrough, I intend to take it slow, so I can clear everything.

Oh, by the way, I think you forgot to mention that skills have a maximum of far more than 5 once you upgrade the Battle Tower. Most skills can reach at least 10, some even higher. The bonuses they get above 5 tend to be significant compared to what you get below 5, so maxing out a few skills is something I highly recommend.

[Thaurin]

I loved the game, but I haven't touched it since I got the battle tower. I'm not sure why that is or if the game just turned into something else. I just kinda lost interest, but that happens to the best of them. I'll get back into it at some time.

Had a great time with it so far, though.

[txa1265]

I loved the game, but I haven't touched it since I got the battle tower. I'm not sure why that is or if the game just turned into something else.

From what I hear that is very common ... and why I think it is good that Maylander pointed out the skill increase after that point - it does give some extra incentive to continue, but sadly I think I agree more with your "game just turned into something else" assessment. Divine Divinity is one of my all-time favorite games, making me even more disappointed in Divinity 2 as just an average overall game.

[Kostaz]

Good reviews,This just got back on my radar.
I think the score is a bit harsh since Corwin's review sounds like an 4.x anyway I'll probably get it once I see a good deal.
Where's the review version?

[GothicGothicness]

Good reviews, I think it sounds like 3/5 in both reviews too... as me and Mike argued another time score is very hard though.

Coriwn is negative about the second part of the time, a good beginning should not be enough for a 4 IMHO.

[txa1265]

Good reviews, I think it sounds like 3/5 in both reviews too… as me and Mike argued another time score is very hard though.

Coriwn is negative about the second part of the time, a good beginning should not be enough for a 4 IMHO.

There was definite score debate ... :)

[Maylander]

Just had to add a little something: Like you, I really like the character building. Very interesting. It's open, yet with enough restrictions to not make you redicilously powerful right out of the box. Makes it possible to build quite a few interesting characters.

In fact, I'd say it's one of the most (if not the most) interesting character systems I've seen in this type of game (open world, 3D-action-adventure-RPG-thingymabob-Gothic-Risen-MW-Oblivion-FO3-etc).

Edit:
The savegames are located in the following folder:
C:\Users\YourUser\AppData\Local\Divinity 2

Seen several other games that also use the AppData (hidden) folder to store savegames. Always takes me ages to find savegames when they're located there. Rather annoying to say the least.

[crpgnut]

Kinda sounds like Lionheart: great beginning area followed by a rush to the finish line once they've figured out they're way behind schedule. I've never gotten to the Battle Tower, so maybe my restart-itis is a good thing in this case. I've only had the little 30 second experience with being a dragon and it was dull. Are there any quests similar to Broken Valley on the Sentinal Islands or at the Fords?

[Maylander]

There are some in Fjords. I liked High Hall among other things. Some interesting caves and secrets too. Generally, Fjords are very difficult though, especially in the 18-22 level range. After that, it gets easier.

Overall, I consider the flying fortresses the most boring part.

[Wulf]

A very good middle-ground review set with 'about right' rating.

Personally i have to commend the Larians concept idea of two separate character forms which are changeable (swapped) to allow access to the game's otherwise restricted areas via gameplay progression, while at the same time each character form can build in level-ups and stat increase distibution.
The summoned followers 'made the game' - switching automatically between shooting fireballs or hacking away with melee weapon was a cool purposeful distraction, by carefull positioning, the follower took most of the flack.
The game played seamlessly. I played from start to finish with full archer stats using melee weapon only on Amdusia.

The game's style will not suit some 'traditional' rpg'ers.

[Davion]

All most of your non game configuration files (photoshop, firefox, ect…) are stored in your "C:\Users\YourUser\AppData" folder. So I'd really recommend to simply make a backup of your user folder next time instead of your documents folder :P

But about the review : I agree with that the first part was the best. But I wouldn't blame the "dragon form" for that, I'd more likely blame the change of scenery.

[Dhruin]

Instead? Why would I want configuration files in preference to data? At any rate, that goes to the core of the issue - Microsoft's guidelines says appdata should be used for non-user files. Clearly, a save file is specifically user data and therefore, should not be there. Larian's Sven Vincke already talked about this on our forums and acknowledged they should have thought about it more.

[txa1265]

Instead? Why would I want configuration files in preference to data? At any rate, that goes to the core of the issue - Microsoft's guidelines says appdata should be used for non-user files. Clearly, a save file is specifically user data and therefore, should not be there. Larian's Sven Vincke already talked about this on our forums and acknowledged they should have thought about it more.

The sad thing is that more and more games are dumping crap just about anywhere ... heck, STALKER: CoP has it in the 'All Users' area without option ...

[TheMadGamer]

The sad thing is that more and more games are dumping crap just about anywhere … heck, STALKER: CoP has it in the 'All Users' area without option …

I agree with your comment. I always thought the whole 'games for windows' label was supposed to be about standardizing these kinds of things. As it relates to save game data, it has actually gotten worse since the pre-games-for-windows xp days.

[Corwin]

Re the score. Both of us felt that 3.5 would be the correct score for the game, but we don't have that option. Therefore, we had to choose between a 3 or a 4. Again, we both felt the first part was a 4 and the second a 3. Overall though, it just didn't quite measure up to what we expect of a 4 in our ranking system.

[Saxon1974]

Nice review guys. I too am a big fan of the first Divinity game.

I have been on the fence whether I want to buy this game now or wait a while, based on your review I think I will wait a while being that Im a traditional RPG'er and the "actiony" dragon parts don't sound very fun.

Tempted to buy it just for the Soundtrack, Love Kirril's Stuff!

Cheers

[Alistair]

Hmm. Thanks for the reviews. I played the demo fairly thoroughly a few times - how much of the 'good' half of the game have I already seen would you say?

[Alistair]

Anyone...?

[Anderson]

Well, the demo isn't more than a few hours in length, and they said 20-30 hrs were "the good half," so I'd say about 10%.

Thanks for the review, guys. You echoed the experiences of a lot of people I listened to, who played through the game. Their enthusiasm seemed to drop off about 2/3 of the way through, and most of them stopped playing. They gave a variety of reasons (e.g., loss of interest, difficulty, being a dragon wasn't all it was cracked up to be, etc.), but the bottom line was, they enjoyed the first half but the game just wasn't able to sustain their interest over the long haul. A couple guys finished it, but most did not.

Anyhow, nicely done review, thanks to both of you. You reinforced my sense of what the game had to offer and my decision to wait a bit before picking it up.

[Corwin]

Alistair, most of us probably didn't play the demo so we can't help you. I only play a demo if it comes out long before the actual game. Since I got my copy from the UK, I had it before your demo even came out.

[txa1265]

Alistair, most of us probably didn't play the demo so we can't help you. I only play a demo if it comes out long before the actual game. Since I got my copy from the UK, I had it before your demo even came out.

Apologies from me as well - I knew I'd play the main game and was buried in other games so I never touched the demo either.

[crpgnut]

I bought straight too, but if you tell me where the demo ends, I can tell you what % of the game you got to play. If you only got to play on the first island, without traveling to Broken Arrow, you got about 1%. If you can play all the way till you meet Talana, you're talking about 10-15%. I feel I've gotten my money's worth and I'm not even halfway through the game myself. I've finished through the first half of Maxos temple and then restarted with two other characters just tweaking my build a bit. I've reached the same area with character 3 and I'm going to go ahead and move beyond this for the first time tonight.

For those who've finished, I can just go into Orobas Fjords by walking there. My level 14 mage doesn't have much trouble with the level 18 characters in the first area over there...Would I be getting way too powerful for Sentinel Islands if I mess around in Orobas for a while? My fear was yes, so I rolled back because I get over a 1000xp a kill for level 18 creatures.

[Acleacius]

Really enjoyed the reviews thanks Corwin and txa1265. :)

Is it just me or is anyone else driven to annoying distraction by some of the designs of these games like Diablo, Two Worlds and DD2, who go through all the trouble of designing these armors/gear as apparent Sets, then make it blatantly impossible to acquire a set?

They go through the trouble of making them matching by looks, stats and enchantments (i.e. Damage Shield or Retribution Shield), yet no matter what even trying to save and reload a game, the merchant never offers a set.

I think mmogs really get this right, instead of teiring the armors/gear at every level like these games do, they do it every 10 levels. You can choose a set that fits your play style and gives you something to work and your plan spending. You get a nice looking armor set (in most cases), some nice stats for each piece and a bonus for each piece of the set you have if your lucky. It's in and of it's self another quest/reward/accomplishment.

I just don't understand how games like this can seemly spend so much time designing all these different pieces for 40 hours of game play, yet never let the player succeed at accumulating sets, with the exception of *teh ultimate end game set*.

[Alistair]

Thanks all - the demo actually ends with your first meeting with the rogue Dragon Knight, and a brief taste of being a dragon. I don't know if that was actually in the full game? So basically it's the tutorial section then a section of valley, with a village, farm etc. I can't remember its name. On the fence about this now. I just picked up ME2 which isn't grabbing me so far. I'll probably get this in a Steam sale. Thanks for the input all.

[crpgnut]

Yep Talana is the 10-15% mark. That's a pretty nice slice of the game. You'll not get to see the enchanting part of the game or any of the higher level skills, but still a lot for free. There are several quests to be solved before reaching her.

[Maylander]

For those who've finished, I can just go into Orobas Fjords by walking there. My level 14 mage doesn't have much trouble with the level 18 characters in the first area over there…Would I be getting way too powerful for Sentinel Islands if I mess around in Orobas for a while? My fear was yes, so I rolled back because I get over a 1000xp a kill for level 18 creatures.

Your progress there will limit itself, no worries.

[Melvil]

Really enjoyed the reviews thanks Corwin and txa1265. :)

Is it just me or is anyone else driven to annoying distraction by some of the designs of these games like Diablo, Two Worlds and DD2, who go through all the trouble of designing these armors/gear as apparent Sets, then make it blatantly impossible to acquire a set?

They go through the trouble of making them matching by looks, stats and enchantments (i.e. Damage Shield or Retribution Shield), yet no matter what even trying to save and reload a game, the merchant never offers a set.

I think mmogs really get this right, instead of teiring the armors/gear at every level like these games do, they do it every 10 levels. You can choose a set that fits your play style and gives you something to work and your plan spending. You get a nice looking armor set (in most cases), some nice stats for each piece and a bonus for each piece of the set you have if your lucky. It's in and of it's self another quest/reward/accomplishment.

I just don't understand how games like this can seemly spend so much time designing all these different pieces for 40 hours of game play, yet never let the player succeed at accumulating sets, with the exception of *teh ultimate end game set*.

I can't speak for any of the other games, but in Divinity 2 I had no trouble whatsoever finding 3 full armor sets.

[Acleacius]

I must be doing something wrong and wishing there was an editor. I am near the beginning in Broken Valley, having a terrible time getting anything decent much less a set to spawn, checking every level and even if I try to reload.

I really like the game and the original, don't mind waiting till the patch it up some but I will give it another try.

Thanks Melvil

[Acleacius]

Melvil, tried playing more yet I am not getting anything close to a single set of Retribution Aura armor set, much less three. I had attributed this to the randomization present in games like DD2, Diablo, Diablo2, Two Worlds and many more.

Either that or we are talking about two different games or my version 1.3 is way different than yours. :)

[Cm]

@ Alistair. I may be a day late and dollar short with this late response but I did play the demo and it does not, IMHO, do justice to the game really. It was like a small box compared to the main game play. A very short taste of only a few main skills and actions. As I said, just my opinion.

[Alistair]

Thanks CM. I think I'll get the game when time permits.

[crpgnut]

I'm not sure about sets, I've never come across a set of armor, but I keep replaying the Broken Valley area. Sentinel Islands just hasn't seemed to grab me much. The whole changing to a dragon was a huge meh.

[Maylander]

There are four fixed sets from fixed locations. You get them very late in the game. No point in worrying about them untill you can visit flying fortresses (you'll know when you get there).

[crpgnut]

Interesting. Thanks for the update, Maylander. I rarely pay attention to my armor. I just want to add charms and enchantments that buff my spellpower or damage, so I look for slots more than for what the armor actually protects me from. I don't need to be protected if everything dies in one or two hits :D

[Dajjer]

Thanks for the great reviews. I got the game but I decided to wait awhile before getting into it.

I find it interesting that my two favorite RPG franchises (Gothic aka Risen and Div Div) both decided to add arcade action to the game. It reminds me of when they added arcade action to one of the best adventure games ever; Longest Journey. There are at least two reasons for this that I believe play a part in these decisions.

1) Console bucks - I think the conventional wisdom is that you absolutely have to have some kind of arcade action to appeal to that audience.
2) Advancing the state of CRPGs. - there is a faction out there that believes that CPGS have become stale and they need to get better. And if you want to make a game better add more reaction based movements.

I don't adhere to any of these schools of thought. But when my favorite franchises are starting to pay attention, I just wonder what is going on?

[Corwin]

As I said in my review, I don't object to the addition of arcade action, as long as it is part of OPTIONAL content. Once it becomes mandatory, I object most strenulously. It was for this reason I hated Pagan and was delighted to read that a later patch fixed this gameplay. If you want to produce a cross genre game, fine. However, please have the decency to advertise this fact so that people like me won't be caught out!!

[spiraling69]

As I said in my review, I don't object to the addition of arcade action, as long as it is part of OPTIONAL content. Once it becomes mandatory, I object most strenulously. It was for this reason I hated Pagan and was delighted to read that a later patch fixed this gameplay. If you want to produce a cross genre game, fine. However, please have the decency to advertise this fact so that people like me won't be caught out!!

Larian had a lot to live up to and I imagine they were under a bit of pressure to create something great to match or better the work they did 7 years ago… Do you feel that the developers "rushed" the second half of the game on purpose to meet a deadline or something to that extent? If not, then do you feel that they were trying something unique and mix things up with a surprise, which is now known as the lame second half?

I'll admit that I still have not finished Dragon Age. I played right up to the Landsmeet, but quite after that and really havent played much since. It's hard to keep interest in any game for 40+ hours… The only RPG that I grinded out to the finish with zeal recently is Risen. Either way, whether you buy now or at a bargain later on, Divinity 2 is a RPG that shouldnt be missed!

[Malk]

It's really only a few hours after Landsmeet. And there's a lot of talking, so it shouldn't be dull.

[Sir Markus]

Divine Divinity 2 was OK, but it could (should) have been a whole lot better, IMO. I lost interest when I got to the dragon/castle part of the game. It wasn't a well thought out 'enhancement' and changed the game for the worse. HORRIBLE design decision, IMO.

[Corwin]

I think that's the general consensus and what I said in my review!! :)

[Francesco]

Divinity 2, apart from the horrible Dragon-transform feature, is an ok game…

The major problem with it is the first Divine Divinity… which was one of the best RPGs ever released on PC… it managed to mix the hack and slash gameplay to a deeper rpg experience like few others.

Calling the game Divinity 2 was misleading as one would expect a sequel… and here Divinity 2 fails miserably not only in terms of quality… it's offers a very different gameplay, they should have called it in another way as it has very little to do with the original Divine Divinity.

I wonder why they decided to not stick with the good old isometric view and deliver the sequel everyone expected… a real shame. Anyway… am I the only one who thinks the isometric view is still a far better choice for this kind of games?