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-   -   Addon: Flames of Vengeance - First impressions (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11253)

HiddenX August 28th, 2010 18:31

Addon: Flames of Vengeance - First impressions
 
4 hours into the game

You start as a level 35 character.
Nice quests, good city design, interesting dialogues.

BUT…
the endless respawn gets me on my nerves. If you are in a dungeon killing some enemies, go around the corner, then go back, RESPAWN !

Thats just a bad game design decision.

Alrik Fassbauer August 28th, 2010 20:10

Yes, it even evoked almost a flamewar in the forums.

Maylander August 30th, 2010 15:38

Hopefully they'll rebalance it and patch it out. I can't stand constant respawns.

I'll get FoV as soon as it's available, but I suspect that might take a while. It's just not a major title around here.

HiddenX August 30th, 2010 21:24

I finished the addon FoV today. All in all a pretty good game.

+ many puzzles - somestimes FoV feels like an adventure game!
+ interesting locations/dungeons
+ some choices (with minor consequeces)
+ some armor sets
+ good dialogues (with rhymes and humor again - do you remember Bellegar ?)
+ thought-reading is back, too

o story - not bad / not really good - the game ist too short (ca. 15-20 hours) for a greater story arc

- combat (respawning rate is pretty high), to avoid this designers blunder I played the game on the easiest difficulty setting; combat becomes a bit meaningless then, but so I was able to play an interesting adventure game ;)

Dwagginz August 30th, 2010 22:24

HiddenX, are the engine/gameplay changes as great as they sound? I got a bit fed up towards the end of Divinity 2 as I had to keep saving and quitting every hour or two.

From your comments it sounds like more of the same, but in a new place. Can't be a bad thing :)

HiddenX August 31st, 2010 06:50

Ego Draconis FoV is like the first part (the better one IMHO) of the Ego Draconis main game. In FoV you're figthing as a dragon only in the last 30 min of the game. All quests have to be done in your human form. All quests are located in the city of Aleroth - there's no "outside area" because Aleroth is besieged completely.

fatBastard() August 31st, 2010 10:45

Considering how there was no respawning at all in Ego Draconis (at least not as far as I remember), it's rather puzzling why they chose to include respawning in FOV and a rather aggressive respawning at that.

Apart from the absolutely atrocious ending in Ego Draconis I rather enjoyed the game so I'm probably going to get FOV at some point (although I sort of decided to boycott any future Divinity game after finishing ED).

Alrik Fassbauer August 31st, 2010 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatBastard() (Post 1061022876)
Considering how there was no respawning at all in Ego Draconis (at least not as far as I remember), it's rather puzzling why they chose to include respawning in FOV and a rather aggressive respawning at that.

I assume thre have been "loud voices" wanting that in FOV.

The discussions are still very, very heated in the German FOV forum at Larian's.

I think most people who are pro the respawn argue that Divinity is an action RPG, I think (although I'm not sure) they rather wanted to have the action element as much emphasized as in the original Divinity game.

But this is nothing but my personal impression. Apart from the argument of an "action RPG", which I have read several times already.

bkrueger August 31st, 2010 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061022896)
I assume thre have been "loud voices" wanting that in FOV.

The discussions are still very, very heated in the German FOV forum at Larian's.

I think most people who are pro the respawn argue that Divinity is an action RPG, I think (although I'm not sure) they rather wanted to have the action element as much emphasized as in the original Divinity game.

But this is nothing but my personal impression. Apart from the argument of an "action RPG", which I have read several times already.

The attitude towards respawning seems to depend on the kind of games people grew accustomed to. Players of Diablo clones can't understand games without respawning, while some more traditional role players hate it with a passion.

For me both can be ok, it is a question of balancing. Simply adding to or removing it from a game usually destroys the balancing.

People who want respawning for every game should be punished by three weeks of Dungeon Lords without the respawn-slow-down-patch.

Alrik Fassbauer September 1st, 2010 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrueger (Post 1061022938)
The attitude towards respawning seems to depend on the kind of games people grew accustomed to. Players of Diablo clones can't understand games without respawning, while some more traditional role players hate it with a passion.

I agree. That's why I'm so much about "educating" people into "what games should have". It rather predefines things intead of letting innovation flow in, imho. It rather makes "concrete-heads" out of people, I fear.

It's like : "this is an action game, therefore it must contain the following elements : …"

I don't like this sort of fixation.

UK_John October 11th, 2010 18:25

Does anyone know if Larian is planning a download for the updated graphic engine that is going to be used in the Gold version of DD2, a combination of DD2 and FoV that is going to be called Dragon Saga?

In other words, something along the lines of what CD Projekt Red did with The Witcher Enhanced?

As long as I don't know, I will not buy the FoV add-on and will wait for Dragon Saga. If Larian were to tell us DD2 and FoV purchasers were going to be looked after with any upgrades in Dragon Saga, then I would trust them. Until they do, why pay out for FoV?

Dwagginz October 11th, 2010 18:33

UK_John, there's a patch coming which will apply a number of updates to ED, mostly the technological improvements like "fixing" the engine. As far as I'm aware Flames of Vengeance will carry this patch on the disc, so when you install it over ED you'll end up with a similar experience to DKS, but it won't be equal, although your saves will still carry over into FoV.

A number of the gameplay improvements (like the itemisation) will only be available in DKS unless Larian get approval to release what's been dubbed the ED+FoV=DKS patch, which will apply the other changes to the game, at the cost of invalidating any existing saves.

FoV, for the PC, will only be released digitally (I'm gonna guess £15-20), whereas DKS will be released in retail form (Game have it on pre-order for £25, so I'm gonna get that).

Gokyabgu November 8th, 2010 11:26

I was going to buy the expansion from Larian Vault on November 10th. But after I learned from your posts that there's constant respawning in it, I decided to think about buying it. I'm not against action RPGs (TPS or isometric no matter) but constant respawning like in the Sacred games really is a big drawback for me. It's like betrayed from one of my favourite companies.

I hope they won't adopt this approach in Divinity 3.

Do you know this spawning change effects main game as well in Dragon Knight Saga or it is FoV only?

Anyway Divinity 2 is a good RPG, better than BD, but not great as DD. I hope they will return to isometric camera in Divinity 3, like Blizzard did in Diablo 3.

Alrik Fassbauer November 8th, 2010 12:43

I fear that a lot of people try to see Divinity as nothing but an Action-RPG. They believe that Divinity 1 was one, too, I fear and they kind of ignore the non-action parts there.

Gorath November 8th, 2010 12:45

The respawning is harmless. It only happens in dungeons and hostile areas. The respawn cycle is pretty slow. Effectively you have to kill mobs only twice - on the way in and on the way out.
I generally don't like respawning, but it works well in FoV. It also helps balancing.

IMHO FoV is better than Divinity 2. Even the combat.

Gokyabgu November 8th, 2010 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061033103)
I fear that a lot of people try to see Divinity as nothing but an Action-RPG. They believe that Divinity 1 was one, too, I fear and they kind of ignore the non-action parts there.

Action part of the Divinity series is the attractive part for casual gamers . But, under the hood there always has been great stories, dialogs, quests that like in traditional RPGs (and humor). For me, itís the exact opposite. Before DD, I really hate Diablo style RPGs, I despise them, did not play them and hate those who loves them, but with DD my biases towards them were gone. Itís the right combination of hack&slash gameplay and traditional RPG game mechanics. For this, DD is a classic for me. BD was somewhat linear and Divinity 2 was not great as 1, but brilliant quest structure was still there.
For me, people can see Divinity games as pure hack&slash, itís not important. On the contrary, that makes them to play these games and see the beauty under the hood. Real RPGamers know what Divinity series are anyway.

Alrik Fassbauer November 8th, 2010 17:45

Me, I loved Divinity 1 for its non-action part.

rooroosta November 8th, 2010 19:12

Oh dear, having second thoughts on buying this one now.
Constant respawning definitely spoils the fun i have playing rpgs..not quite as bad as random battles from nowhere though..but that's another can of worms. :)
Might wait and see it Larian rebalance before spending my hard earned on this one.

Gorath November 8th, 2010 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooroosta (Post 1061033170)
Oh dear, having second thoughts on buying this one now.
Constant respawning definitely spoils the fun i have playing rpgs..not quite as bad as random battles from nowhere though..but that's another can of worms. :)
Might wait and see it Larian rebalance before spending my hard earned on this one.

Quite a dogmatic opinion.

In FoV the roleplaying part and the action part are separated.
Small dungeons, respawning after ca. 3 minutes, increasingly weaker opponents because there is no level scaling. It works fine and the combat is actually more difficult and requires more tactics than in D2:ED.

Alistair November 8th, 2010 19:36

The respawning didn't detract at all for me - I thought it fitted in well. Clearing the city of undead is supposed to require questing to find and deal with the source, rather than you just single-handedly wiping everything out :)


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