The Let's Rant and Rave About Oblivion Thread
OK, all over the site people have been ranting and raving about this game. Some love it, some hate it and most lie somewhere in the middle!! In the name of sanity, I'd like to see all that angst kept in ONE place, so the rest of us can discuss other games in peace!! :)
PLEASE keep all your comments and feelings about the game in this thread and I won't have to move them over from other threads that are being hijacked!! Thank You!!!! :)
I have not finished Morrowind and I have not finished Oblivion. I got bored by it. The visuals are quite impressive and I understand that other people may like the game very much. But I don't find its mechanics very entertaining. I enjoyed the game for around 10 hours and force myself to continue for another 15 or so but didn't like so I've quite.
I actually liked it a lot, BUT I wished they would have kept some features from the predecessors:
-the transportable light sources from Morrowind
-the clean-out-your-own-house feature from Morrowind (meaning, you could actually kill the inhabitants and take it over if you didn't get caught in the process)
-the visit-4000-places-on-the-map feature of Daggerfall
-the buy-100000-different-clothes-including-fetish-stuff from Daggerfall
Reverting to the instant travel feature of Arena and Daggerfall (even though just in a half-assed version) was an error IMO. Oblivion just wasn't as huge, you could walk or ride wherever you wanted. Level scaling was idiotic, but I guess we all agree on that. In Morrowind, we had just one Romance quest, but one is still better than none.
Hmmm… that's my rant for now.
Good game but probably the most overrated game ever.
Bethesda exaggerated about certain features and outright lied about others so I'm also quite irritated with them.
Oblivion set the bar for graphics but regressed in terms of gameplay. Basically it looks better than it plays.
I've never finished Morrowind myself but from what i've played it's a far better RPG than Oblivion.
Standing on a mountain top and looking down with an overall view of the rpg gaming world below, i watched as the oblivion effect slowly spread it's eerie fingers of creeping mist over the land. I also did not complete Daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion, it is the way things evolved at bethesda. Market forces have overtaken the gaming "storyline-satisfaction" element without a doubt. They are nice enough games to look at but that extra magnetic "bite" we were used to a decade ago that draws gamers into not being able to stop playing a game until completion is fastly fading.
Because Oblivion wanted from the outset to take "center stage" of the greatest game ever brigade, then it has "made it's own bed and must now lie in it" and inevitably will forever be used as a corner-stone in the majority of rpg comparisons and arguments.
May Innos have mercy on our gaming souls.
I know I always raise definition issues when I make this point, but to me the distinction is that Oblivion is a good GAME, but a poor RPG!!
I think Oblivion is a nice work of art…… however as a game it is really boring. When you have seen the different dungeon types some nice reflectinos and sky effects and the different city types ( there are not that much variation ) you are done watching all the art. No need to spend more time with it. There are some mods to improve many asepct of the game though….. this is a plus.
I made it a sticky, so the visitors from the Codex could find it!! :biggrin:
Personally, I was very excited when I got Oblivion. The first bit in the sewers was interesting, I explored around, had a bit of fun killing bandits. Went to a town, did a few quest, went to another town, did another quest or two… and that's when it got boring — I just wasn't in the mood to run around always doing the same thing. Then I went to some forums, read about the scaling thing (and how, apparently, some monster level "better" than you, so that you're best off staying at level 1 the whole game), and that completely killed it for me.
Tried to pick it back up again a bit ago. Again, had fun, visited a few more towns (but not the one's I've been to before)… it was interesting, mostly the same as the first time. But as soon as I got to a place I've been to in my first playthrough, I got bored and stopped playing it. For the record, I never had this problem with Morrowind - there were always other quests to do.
And yes, the second time was with that mod and stuff - still didn't help overly too much.
So, I guess I can half-agree with Corwin: Oblivion is a poor game, and hence, a poor RPG.
Oblivion is the worst TES game I've played for any length of time and possibly my biggest disappointment ever (due to me liking the predecessors a lot). It's like a romantic comedy from Hollywood, incredibly skillful craftsmanship but very empty.
For me TES games always were about replayability and free form roaming through quantity. The quests and the characters might be flatter than in some other games, but I could always count on there to be something new for me to explore. I really looked forward to Oblivion as I was a big fan of Morrowind which is up there with the Gothics among my top RPG experiences. Daggerfall was also cool for its time but suffered from a very lacking presentation (lots of features werent fully implemented). These games also had level scaling, but not as extreme as Oblivion. So where did the much more polished Oblivion fail?
Quantity: Too few quests and factions makes you run out of things to do and reduce replay value A LOT. Replay value was IMHO the main strength of Morrowind, and the guilds were much more fleshed out in MW with questlines that were rather long compared to those in Oblivion.
Console interface that's developed for 13 year olds. The game feels like a console port. Menus and the like were not even rescaled to make use of the higher resolution on a PC.
MAJOR: Retarded quest mechanics where you dont get enough oral/written hints, making the bleeding COMPASS ARROW necessary for solving quests. The quests are also more often than not scripted in such a way that triggers have to be activated in a certain order…
MAJOR: Lack of branching in storylines and guild selection: The latter was admittedly a problem in Morrowind too, but there you could ignore it and just focus on one guild and still have enough things for your character to do. Not so with the low number of quests in Oblivion.
Level scaling: A historical weakness of TES games that was in Daggerfall (almost as dumbly implemented as in Oblivion, but less problematic as you could get by without optimizing your character) and Morrowind (where it was less intrusive) as well. But it reaches new heights here, making certain character types (a thief levelling on thieving skills) completely unviable. Any system that requires you to plan your levelling extensively disrupts the fun of the game and kills immersion. Allied NPCs also dont seem to level up to the same extent as your enemies. Anyone tried making the Kvatch guards survive at level 15 or so?
Voice acting: Sean Bean and Patrick Stewart do their part very well, but was there only money in the budget for 3 or four other actors? I hate hearing the same voices over and over again, and I find it a bit odd for High Chancellor Ocato to have the same voice as Glarthir the Psychotic. It would have been better to allow one to switch of voice acting completely, as the repeated use of the same few voices kills immersion.
MAJOR: NPC AI in combination with a ton of escort quests. Possibly dumber than in Gothic 3. NPCs run in BETWEEN MY SWORD AND THE ENEMY. NPCs hit each other and start killing each other. The so called Radiant AI causes a lot of friendly fire incidents to end with wholesale massacres.
A misused physics engine: Walk close to the shelves in a shop and watch the inventory fly all over the place.
MAJOR: Twitch-based combat is not for me. Combined with the "allied" AI its a game breaker.
A lack of weapon types and skills compared to earlier incarnations make each character feel less unique. I know this is cosmetic, but its a big deal to me.
MAJOR: The most populous province of a world-conquering empire has a rather ridiculous population density. The scale is way off. This was less problematic in Morrowind as MW took place on a frontier island, and not an issue at all in humungous Daggerfall.
MAJOR: Random dungeons. Why reuse the obviously faulty dungeon generation system of Daggerfall (combine about ten unique larger dungeon blocks at random)? Sure, the dungeons arent mating octopi this time, but they repeat. And repeat. Pure shite and inexcusable in this day and age.
MAJOR: Oblivion gates and the, as advertised on the box, infinite realm of Oblivion. Random generated lava levels just dont do it for me. I would recommend any new players to avoid (the realm of) Oblivion and its blasted gates by never going to Kvatch, so the shite doesnt shoot up all over the place.
Mods can fix some of these issues, but not the ones I labelled as major. Fans have told me that there are quest mods and the like, but my experience with mods for all games (including say NWN that was intended as a construction set) is that fan made content varies in quality, and that one has to wade through a lot of poo to get to the nice 5%. I played the game for 20 hours, uninstalled it, and wont touch it again. It bored me and that was due to what I perceive as major design flaws. In the future I'll try to only buy Bethesda "RPGS" from the bargain bin. I concede that the game looks good, some of the quest ideas were neat and new, and that the AI and physics engine could have been nice parts of better thought out design. This isnt Neverwinter Nights 1, a construction set with a campaign tacked on to it, but a GAME with a construction set tacked onto it.
As I'm replaying now to work on the "Knights of the Nine" module I bought, I am reminded of a few things:
- The game looks great.
- It plays very smoothly with much load zone lag since the patch.
- All the characters look weird. I just don't know what is up with the faces …
- Combat can be pretty fun. I still want to kick everyone, though …
- The world is full or mostly pretty nothingness. I don't think it is wonderful strolling through the unpopulated hills … sure it is pretty, but I want to feel like I'm in constant mortal peril, not occasional mild danger.
- There is a distinct feeling that nothing you do matters … I have a nice 'Arena Champion' badge, and people heaped platitudes about how the Gray Prince was known throughout the land and how since I beat him … well, you get what I mean. Nobody knows that I'm arena champ.
- Quests & Failure - when I took on the Arena champ, I knew I was betraying my promise to help him uncover his past. I was *failing* at a quest … as he lay dead, I got a notice that 'You won't ever be able to uncover his past' - but the message was 'Quest Completed'! C'mon, hurt my feelings - let me know that I screwed up … I can handle it! (*sniff*)
- Choices and Consequences - I met the guy in Wye who gives out the Fish quest, and pretty much talking to him gives you the quest and talking again ends it. What if I wanted to extort from him after getting the fish scales - he *was* pretty desperate after all … sorry, not in this game.
And that sums up the major items - it is a huge world with loads to do, but little of it feels like it matters, nor do you feel like you are making choices.
Zaleukos very indept, it's been so long since I played DaggerFall, Morrwind or even Oblifion I didn't remember all your points until you mentioned them, thanks. :)
I couldn't agree more, when NoN was release I starting trying to reorient myself since there had been a patch as well since last I played.
The Massive amounts of Mods just trying to fix the game, so now since the patch most all previous Mods had to be updated.
This means if you had a set of Mods which at least made the game tolerable, you can only hope the Mod Authors are still around and you can find the thread.
Good lord have your tried to do a search on the offical forums, it's total insanity with a mind numbing number of post to try to sort through.
Add to this trying to get a grasped of the available Mods is beyond spending a couple hours of catching up, I proabably spent at least 3 nights of about 4 hours each and just scratched the surface, it will concievably take the time it would to actually play the game certianly 40 hours to get really up todate.
Plane of Oblivion was a joke, remember how they were guarding it as a secret?
Lol, can't imagine why. ;)
I agree just skip the Main Quest the talented actors give the MQ a little life but there is only so much they can do with poorly written story once you have to deal with the gates.
Even though there is a talented team of Modders that Rebuild Kavch and allow you to be ruler this means having to deal with the MQ and all the nasty gates.
Oblfion is like a relationship from hell, sure you want to try to like it but it constantly bites you. :p
You can actually finsih the Grey Princes quest before fighting him and Spoilers;
He begs you to kill, even refusing to fight back in the arena.
It's a big world, there is lots do do, but even with mods like OOO, what you do don't matter.
Combine that with the fact that the game is incredibly linear ( In morrowind for example there was such an abundance of guild quests, you did not have to do them all to become head of the guild, instead you could leave onces you didn't like) and (without mods) does not reward you for the one thing that is so much fun about sandbox games, which is exploration, and it is a game that bores me to tears. The combat is fun for a while, but it only keeps me entertained for a while, after that I just want more out of a game.
I keep going back to it, trying to find the 'magic', that 'getting sucked into a game', like I had with Morrowind, but Oblivion leaves me cold. Or maybe I should say sometimes it leaves me red-hot, I had such high hopes for the game, I wanted to like it so badly. The whole game just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I wish I could like it, I really would, but in all honesty I doubt I'll buy any other Bethesda product straight at release…
I can't bash Oblivion since I didn't buy it—nothing about it, especially the hefty price tag, encouraged me to think I would like it. I did buy and play Morrowind and really enjoyed it in the beginning, but never finished it, if such a game could be said to be finishable.
I think Jaz had a good point about each TES game dropping some of the features you liked in the last—I found the actual rpg content of Daggerfall to really be dribbled away in Morrowind, tho the graphics did mesmerize me—but that's enough bashing from someone who hasn't played the game.;)
Morrowind was my first TES game (again, late to the party) … and I was impressed with it for a bit in terms of size and scope … but after I got Gothic 2 I could never go back.
This Game is the Harbinger of Doom for Mankind. I played the Elder Scrolls Series since Arena and Morrowind was already a Disappointment for me (ok, Battlespire was also Crap ^^).
I played & finished
My TES favourites are still
Daggerfall, Battlespire and Redguard
Morrowind was good:
1) great story
2) lots of quests
3) huge world
4) many different groups to join
but not great:
1) bad enemy leveling
2) bad economy model
3) bad combat
4) less choices and consequences
5) mini dungeons
Oblivion was good:
1) lots of quests - some of them very good
2) better combat
but not great because of
1) bad enemy/chest leveling
2) even less choices and consequences
3) bad story
4) repetive gameplay (Oblivion plane, dungeons)
5) bad dialogue-system
6) bad interface
PS: All TES games are more action aventures than role playing games for me.
Bethesda is always trying to make a huge world simulator (exceptions: Battlespire and Redguard) with absolute freedom.
For my taste absolute freedom is boring.
I want to make choices with consequences to me, the world and the people.
I want to think about my next step.
I want a challenge.
So Bethesda think about this and read the crpg ingredients thread.
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