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Zloth January 4th, 2011 03:21

Bethesda Teaching Japan About Western RPGs
 
Fallout 3 for Free! Well, it's free if you know Japanese and if you don't mind taking a… noticable graphics hit….

It seems Bethesda is trying to teach Japan's RPG'ers about open world RPGs. See GameSpot's coverage here.

SpaceHobbit January 4th, 2011 03:49

That's a good approach to the issue; tell them they aren't as smart as us and give 'em a crappier version of an already bad game.

Is the story about the construction of an atomic bomb?

GothicGothicness January 4th, 2011 12:25

LOL, these Americans… never cease to amuse me….

JemyM January 4th, 2011 12:27

I thought American philosophy was "if you add accessibility options in the main menu the game will sell more".

Alrik Fassbauer January 4th, 2011 14:15

WTF ???

That's the only thing I can think about it.

bloodlover January 5th, 2011 22:02

FF series > Oblivion and Fallout. So I really think it should be the other way around…

Scrav January 6th, 2011 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloodlover (Post 1061043161)
FF series > Oblivion and Fallout. So I really think it should be the other way around…

While I don't have much appreciation for either, SquareEnix has already done that with the SNES game, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest.

Dasale January 6th, 2011 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloodlover (Post 1061043161)
FF series > Oblivion and Fallout. So I really think it should be the other way around…

You should play Fallout 1 before launching such assumption. I haven't played all FF but the III ie the VI in Japan if I remember well, the IV and the VII plus a bit of I&II.

A better story polishing just can't match a more adult story, plus alternate choices plus no random encounters that pop from thin air, plus no harassment of repetitive fights, plus no forced grinding. :biggrin:

zadokAllen January 7th, 2011 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dasale (Post 1061043276)
You should play Fallout 1 before launching such assumption. I haven't played all FF but the III ie the VI in Japan if I remember well, the IV and the VII plus a bit of I&II.

A better story polishing just can't match a more adult story, plus alternate choices plus no random encounters that pop from thin air, plus no harassment of repetitive fights, plus no forced grinding. :biggrin:

You should perhaps not rely on tired stereotypes whilst attempting to bash jRpgs.

So ok, the original assumption (FF>Fallout/ES) is obviously flawed, as they`re equals, and thats only when we assume it makes sense at all to compare such different games competitively. Never even mind FF I-IV are old and truly hardcore. Try comparing Wizardry IV to Fallout (arguably pinnacle of the genre & from 97) , see what happens.

Complain about stories in jRpgs? Please do - but only if you understand Japanese psyche & are fluent in the language. As it is, translations kill/maim most of the subtleties+ main story too sometimes. I mean it - if you get a Western game translated badly, it`s awkward, but with Japan it becomes meaningless/ridiculous.
Of course you get truly bad ones too, but hey, Diablo & every other western one had Tolstoy-like writing, right? (try Digital Devil for adult themes, it runs circles around Fallout`s Mad Maxery)

Random encounters?- No sireee, we`ve never seen them in Western games oh no I swear, no no no! :) Laughable.
Although, of course, they can be annoying. In some titles. In others - less or not at all because you got your fixed/visible ones. Alas, it`s easier to pretend there`s only one catch-all jRpg out there.
Repetitive fights? Matter of opinion. Again, in some games, yes, you press A all the way through - in others, you have to study FAQs because battle systems are so complex, Fallout`s a pre-school. Also, the simplistic ones usually make up for that with crazy ass monsters that differ from fight to fight.
Grinding? Mostly a myth (yeah, I said it :) For the 3rd time; in some titles - yes- but in majority not at all. That is, if you explore & do side quests. But, you do that , right? And what, you never did some sweet grindin` in a western game?

Dasale January 7th, 2011 22:13

I didn't wrote best JRPG hadn't a good writing. I think the overall writing is better but it lacks of a more adult approach like in Fallout 1 or The Witcher. But apart few examples, best WRPG don't match best JRPG in that matter.

For the forced grinding, since a long time in WRPG tradition it's a characteristic known as a weakness. So the best WRPG tend avoid it, often at the price to be too easy when you grab all quests and fights. At the opposite it's a standard in JRPG, it's possible that this is changing a bit those last years, but if that changes it's very recent.

You are quoting Diablo like the WRPG, ho my, please quote the right references, Diablo is more an action game and just a bit of RPG.

I didn't comment "random encounter" but "random encounters that pop from thin air", that is mood breaking for me. This is a long tradition in JRPG, when in WRPG it started disappeared during the first years of the 90's.

Yeah repetitive fights, more in JRPG because the fight spawning rate is much higher than in WRPG. This approach of harassing the player with constants fights is a typical JRPG approach and it produces plenty more duplicates.

bloodlover January 8th, 2011 13:27

I was referring to Fallout 3 obviously since it was developed by Bethesda. I was not talking about the first two Fallout games…

And leaving aside the stereotype for JRPG's, please don;t tell me that F3 is a better RPG than FF7 for ex… That's just wrong.

zakhal January 8th, 2011 15:04

Latest FF was so bad that I couldnt buy it even if I could get the CE very cheap. It felt like the game had crossed som border that I simply cant cross. I do however enjoy som other jrpgs on ps2 like persona and yakuza-series.

zadokAllen January 8th, 2011 15:13

Well, ok , we can argue till a slime appears :) but it`s rather pointless. What I`m saying is that the flaws you pointed out are either not as serious (in most games) as the common opinion indicates, or are meant to be that way on purpose. And, obviously, what may not make sense to us, is perfectly a-ok with Nippon folk, as evidenced in continuously high sales for these "traditional" titles.

Anyway. I used to think this way, but changed a bit, and now I (mostly:) don`t have a problem with these things. It`s just a different mindset, also required when playing old Wrpgs.

FF VII is a great game and vastly different from the one you`re comparing it to, bloodlover. And yes, I think Fallout beats FF hands down.

@zakhal
If you didn`t buy it how do you know it was soooo bad? Many reviewers changed their mind once they actually played it for a bit, apparently it opens up later on.

JDR13 January 8th, 2011 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloodlover (Post 1061043586)
And leaving aside the stereotype for JRPG's, please don;t tell me that F3 is a better RPG than FF7 for ex… That's just wrong.


As someone who has played and enjoyed both games, I'd say that FO3 is MUCH better than FF7 actually.

Once you add a few mods to correct the balance issues, FO3 is an incredible experience. FF7 was a grindfest with a semi-interesting story by comparison.

bloodlover January 8th, 2011 18:21

Please stop saying that MODDED games are good. Even Oblivion, with utterly boring gameplay and world can be a little entertaining with mods, and so is F3… well at least for a few hours.

Take the game as it is and compare to another game as it is… At it's core, F3 is a mediocre game at best and below the quality of the first two games from the series.

JDR13 January 8th, 2011 19:38

Being so moddable is the way the game was intended to be, and that is part of the game out of the box. You're more than welcome to close your eyes to that fact though.

I'd put vanilla FO3 behind the first 2 games, but I've had far more fun with a tweaked FO3 than I ever did with FO 1 or 2.

ToddMcF2002 January 8th, 2011 21:16

FO3 is one the best games I've ever played. It may not be the perfect RPG but it was a hell of a game. I don't get the point of this 8-bit thing. Last time I checked modern JRPG's look amazing, even the ones on the DS look pretty good, like Golden Sun, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Zelda Spirit Tracks. Who is going to play this 8-bit thing?

If you want the JCrowd to relate try making Fallout Tokyo?

zakhal January 8th, 2011 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by zadokAllen (Post 1061043595)
@zakhal
If you didn`t buy it how do you know it was soooo bad? Many reviewers changed their mind once they actually played it for a bit, apparently it opens up later on.

I really wanted to buy it since I own all the previous ones but all the reviews made it sound like somthing I would not like. The reviews werent bad but the things they discribed about the game were bad in my taste.

After over 20 years of reading reviews and playing games Ive grown to trust the reviews. There is always som truth in them too especially if you know yourself very well when it comes to games and you remember to crossreference the reviews.

zadokAllen January 9th, 2011 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakhal (Post 1061043658)
After over 20 years of reading reviews and playing games Ive grown to trust the reviews. There is always som truth in them too especially if you know yourself very well when it comes to games and you remember to crossreference the reviews.

Fair enough…I also mostly "trust" reviews and your methodology is sound. In case of FFXIII there was lots of later ones saying the game is not actually so linear…
It probably isn`t really up to standards set by the latest FF`s but I believe it might still be worth playing..especially that it came down in price now. And even sub-standard FF game still has the potential to beat the *^$% out of many contemporary Rpgs.

As for all the "F3 is crap" crap…please. I mean I can understand people`s dislike of Oblivion, but with this one - vanilla or not - you`re just wrong. Also you can not get a bigger fan of the first two Fallout`s than me- no, really: equal - ok, but not bigger, and i don`t really see the problem with the whole "legacy" thing in F3.

JDR13 January 9th, 2011 21:09

Actually, FFXIII is very linear in the first half, but then becomes a very open game when you reach the second half. The game is split into two environments that are completely different from each other.


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