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-   -   Gothic 3 - Review @ Game Chronicles (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1239)

Dhruin January 30th, 2007 23:30

Gothic 3 - Review @ Game Chronicles
 
Game Chronicles has kicked up a review of Gothic 3 with a score of 6.9/10. It's a reasonably balanced article, although not everyone will agree with all the points:
Quote:

Rounding out my complaints is the game’s idiotic level design. Wander into a wilderness area and you’ll encounter a wolf, boar, or other nasty critter every five feet. There are also no appropriate boundaries between newbie and extremely dangerous areas – in one “starter” cavern I fought my way past the goblins at the entrance only to find myself face to face with a dragon just a short distance down the main tunnel. Some critics have praised Gothic for “creating such a realistic world where dangers lurk around every corner,” but in my mind the developers needed to tone down the explorable areas and make sure your low-level characters aren’t facing dragons at level 5.
More information.

doctor_kaz January 30th, 2007 23:30

I think that the game does at least a halfway decent job of subtly guiding you to areas that are appropriate for your level of difficulty. Also, you can easily run away from just about any encounter if you want, so the game is forgiving in that way also.

JDR13 January 31st, 2007 04:13

"but in my mind the developers needed to tone down the explorable areas and make sure your low-level characters aren’t facing dragons at level 5."

ARRRGGGHH!!!! This is exactly the reason why CRPG's are getting more and more dumbed down! This idiot has no business reviewing RPG's.

Dr. A January 31st, 2007 05:09

A fan of level-scaling, I assume…

lilithn January 31st, 2007 10:04

Just a quick (pretty easy, and simple solution) tip: do not go into this cavern with Dragons at level 5 . Wait until you can handle it, Oh Mighty Dumb One.

bjon045 January 31st, 2007 11:26

Actually it is quite easy to kill those dragons at level 5…….if you stand on the steps going down they will just stand still while you load them full of arrows/bolts.

I would agree with most of the things said. Monsters are far too common and there is a lot of extremely bad level design. By the time I made it to level 80 I had killed something like 2000-3000 monsters, possibly more. If they made the game half as big and concentrated on quality rather than quantity (ala gothic 2) I feel we would have got a much more enjoyable game.

Why were those gimpy 5 feet tall dragons even in that cave anyway? What on earth did they eat? And why didn't anyone in Cape Dun even mention them?

Dr. A January 31st, 2007 11:32

So this reviewer wants:

a) clearer directions to areas (quest marker) - " Quest descriptions are often too vague"
b) easier level progression (levelled scaling) - "game’s idiotic level design"
c) faster travelling (instant travel) - "Traveling around can be a pain"

DAMN YOU, Bethesda! You have tainted the radiant pool of RPG with your foul offspring. :(

bjon045 January 31st, 2007 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. A (Post 17619)
b) easier level progression (levelled scaling) - "game’s idiotic level design"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. A (Post 17566)
A fan of level-scaling, I assume…

Considering Gothic 1, 2, 3 all use level scaling…..albeit the system is far better than oblivions. In Gothic 1 and 2 it was almost unnoticeable due to the fact that the nameless hero got so powerful, while in gothic 3 monsters have level caps based on the area you find them (supposedly). I did find level scaling quite noticeable for my hunter character as the low end monsters (wolves etc) still took the nearly the same amount of arrows to kill at level 80 (750 hunting skill) as they did at level 10, I think this is more due to the fact that skills don't seem to ram up very well like they did in gothic 1 and 2 i.e. spend 100 points in strength/hunting and you will barely notice the difference.

curious January 31st, 2007 20:59

i think i remember someone in game mentioning the caves along the coast being dangerous. but if you can tackle the mine/sand crawlers, hordes of goblins, and one of the toughest enemies (at least to melee with) ogres then i think progressing to the dragons shouldn't prove too difficult. but if all those enemies don't detour you or defeat you then you are obviously 'meant' to be there. their relative closeness to the starting point of the game doesn't mean anything, if anything maybe they put that cave there to 'beef up' the quality of the demo they eventually planned on and did make.

txa1265 January 31st, 2007 21:52

I think that the term 'level scaling' has become strictly pejorative recently, yet it is part of pretty much every game out there. In shooters it is applied to keep things challenging as you get better weapons, and in typical action-RPG's it is there to keep the challenge alive. Heck, Silverfall has it all over the place and that just keeps things flowing.

I think that level scaling is fine, but the problem is when it is so universally applied that there is never anything overwhelming in terms of challenge, nor any surprisingly great items found. Gothic 3 still had plenty of 'uh oh … gonna die now' moments - but also too many 'hey, here is another exploit for me' moments.

Dr. A February 1st, 2007 04:20

@bjon045

Hmm, I see what you mean. It's just that I think of level-scaling, I automatically think in terms of it being "universal applied" (like txa1265 said)

The way Gothic 3 implemented it was far more controlled and I didn't really have the sensation of being hamstringed like in Oblivion. I can live with that :)

Are you sure about scaling existing in Gothic 1 & 2?

Corwin February 1st, 2007 06:05

Yes, it did!! It was just handled well!!

lilithn February 1st, 2007 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin (Post 17770)
Yes, it did!! It was just handled well!!

That's true. If you think about G2 chapter separations…you didn't see an Orc (except that lone Scout and Elite Orc) up till chapter 2 (justified really well since the whole orc camp was sieging the castle in the valley) and even then you had the option to avoid them, also they were pretty hard in numbers. I must admit it was a tiny bit disappointing that in G3 you can massacre them in groups of dozen. I don't think that the beasts' levels were adjusted much in G3. It was much much easier to kill them at higher levels ….

"Actually it is quite easy to kill those dragons at level 5…….if you stand on the steps going down they will just stand still while you load them full of arrows/bolts."
Yes yes, I did the same! Felt like cheating! :D Although I was shaking in my little boots the whole time. (Around level 7-8)

Dr. A February 1st, 2007 11:07

Wow, I never really noticed. Which, I believe, is indicative of a good implementation of level scaling. Gothic FOR TEH WIN!11 :)

@lilithn
Haha, I did that too. That definitely DID feel like cheating because the dragons would not retaliate when attacked with ranged weaopns. Maybe PB dumbed the dragons down?

February 1st, 2007 21:07

The fact that you could stumble into dangers was really one of the main attractions of Gothic to me. I really cannot stand being led by the hand through a game.

It also gave the opportunity to develop all kinds of crazy strategies to defeat enemies that were vastly superior to you.

I am pretty sure that PB will continue to ignore these mainstream reviews and only pay attention to its fans. They haven't let us down (too much) so far.

Dez February 2nd, 2007 12:38

Quote:

The fact that you could stumble into dangers was really one of the main attractions of Gothic to me. I really cannot stand being led by the hand through a game.
I agree 100%. There is danger lurking around every corner in gothic world..No one knows what is in those woods…"Don't go near orcish ruins at night stranger" :) Its great that there is always sense of wonder and uknown present. If everything scales with player it doesnt' only lack realism but it will also destroy any sense of building your character.

No one forced this reviewer to walk alone in that mysterious cave full of monsters and then cry to mommy if they are too much for him to handle. Why can't he let it wait till he is stronger, knows how to handdle a bow better?

Some People just want everything now..it saddens me.

txa1265 February 2nd, 2007 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chekote (Post 17871)
The fact that you could stumble into dangers was really one of the main attractions of Gothic to me. I really cannot stand being led by the hand through a game.

Not just danger but pretty much certain death! I remember starting Gothic 2 for the first time (played 2 before 1) and getting ~ 30 minutes in before quitting in frustration! Difficult adapting to the controls, and the unforgiving difficulty was a shocker. I put it aside for a month, then came back … and have never left since :)

gaboru93 February 2nd, 2007 18:22

the guy that has made the review is a complete idioT!!! idiot… these kind of guys want only games for dumb people!! as simple as possible.. where wold the fun be if you wouldn't run through horrdes of orcs to enter the castle in chapter 2??(gothic2)

Corwin February 3rd, 2007 02:12

Actually, I used all my sneaking abilities and only ran for the final section!! :)


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