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-   -   Entertainers and Politics (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1244)

Cormac January 28th, 2007 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSamhainx (Post 17322)
As far as Soundgraden goes, I have always thought that they were the best of the Grunge Wave. They didnt sound like the atypical Nirvana/STP/Pearl Jam pack of bands, they always sounded different to me. Pearl Jam is easily one of my most absolutely hated bands of all time, I cannot stand their music, their persona, just the sight of Eddie Vedder makes me cringe. Just thought I'd add that little tidbit of Sam Trivia. Chris Cornell's voice is awesome indeed, what a great scream, and when dual-tracked with him screaming very faintly in the back, such as in "Mailman" it's a hell of an effect. SuperUnknown I would say is my favorite cd by them, favorite tracks are the aofrmentioned "Mailman" and "4th of July". SuperUnknown is one of those rare cds in which every.single.song.is.good. Period[

I agree about Vedder: I used to love Pearl Jam and I thought Stone Gossard was a fine songwriter but since Vedder's bloated ego took over the band isnt the same anymore, I cant stand the man's obsession with politics, saving the whale, the rainforest, abortion, etc. Who gives a fuck, really ? Ironically, the album Lost Dogs, which is a collection of B sides and leftovers — left over by the prima donna Vedder — contains some of the band's best stuff.
Oh and Superunknown is fantastic.

curious January 28th, 2007 06:26

aritists that care about the world…yeah who needs them:rolleyes:

Cormac January 28th, 2007 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by curious (Post 17350)
aritists that care about the world…yeah who needs them:rolleyes:

Yes, that's what we sorely need, celebrities to tell us what to think.

curious January 28th, 2007 20:16

guess we are going to have to disagree…i think their should be alot more.
not all music, or other art forms, is about making you smile or giving you pleasure. i find the fact that when artists express who they really are what they believe in and then get trounced upon absolutely disgusting. sorry to me its like being friends with someone and then you find out "the truth" about them when they say 'yeah my grandfather is black'…and then suddenly you can't be friends with them anymore. obviously if someone spends a large portion of a concert talking about anything then that can be worth condemning for wasting your time when they should be performing, but with all the 'useless' things some performers do i hardly see using a few minutes in a productive manner wrong.

by the way i think 'celebrity' is pretty weak word to use and not accurately describing the persons fields. seems more like just an echo that falls out of someone like rush limbaughs lips to lump him together with people like george clooney.

everyone and everything is telling you what to think constantly whether you want to acknowledge it or not. so an artist using his 'celebrity status' to express a dissenting opinion is free speech at its finest. if you feel obligated, or guilty, that you should be doing or believing what he is saying then maybe there is a un/subconcious reason for that perhaps.

dteowner January 28th, 2007 20:55

I believe the point is that some artists allow "the sermon" to overtake "the music". You acknowledge Streisand's ridiculous mid-concert rant (at least, I think so), but where to draw the line? What's more important to Bono these days, music or politics? Has he lost sight of exactly what gained him the fame/celebrity/visibility that he enjoys?

xSamhainx January 28th, 2007 22:21

Shut up and sing, that pretty much sums up my feelings.

It's not so much the fact that when I listen to many singers and actors blather on about their opinions or feelings, that they express views that are contrary to mine. No, it's the fact that I generally find them sounding like pretentious idiots, no matter what theyre talking about. Theyre for the most part uneducated, spoiled rotten, self-important, totally out-of-touch people, grandstanding and carrying on like an embarassing drunken uncle at a family get-together. I'd just rather keep the grand illusion of their perceived persona alive, as not to interfere with my enjoyment of their music or acting.

txa1265 January 28th, 2007 22:27

I feel we can learn from most anywhere, but there are boundaries - just as I wouldn't expect to learn of the structural functions of harmony from pretty much anyone on rock/pop genres or their multitudinous sub-genres listed here, neither do I anticipate gleaning much from the spoutings of many of these singers.

That doesn't mean that I am against social-commentary in *anything* - I agree with curious that we need *more*. Problem is that we tend to elevate pinheads to spokespeople, and the last thing we need is more small-minded zipperheads sppouting idiocy. We elect enough of them to office.

curious January 29th, 2007 00:09

i've never been a fan of pearl jam. ridiculous band names are always killers for me. in fact at times i've loathed them. there are a handful of there songs though i really enjoy. but years ago, despite not liking them i could at least admit to respecting them—simply because they voiced their opinions on things. personally though not your typical grunge, the band live was probably my favourite group from 1996-1999. their first album was probably their most political too. but i changed or they did and as such i haven't enjoyed their direction or last couple albums. for me u2 is the same way. the truth is that most bands have a finite amount of creativeness that is stunted by the fact that they have the same members and thus the same constrictions. its why most of the talented musicians out their that were in huge famous bands usually go solo or even better though rarer start new and succesful bands. to me any band thats been around intact for much more than a decade has a waning relevance and either will be playing at state fairs or off supporting some cause which may be noble but probably not without selfish reasons to remain in the public eye. mcdonalds probably has a better, less shameful, retirement plan than the music industry…

abbaon January 29th, 2007 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by curious (Post 17404)
i've never been a fan of pearl jam. ridiculous band names are always killers for me.

sorry to me someone who can't look past a band's ridiculous name to the singer's political views is like a klansman at a lynching. maybe you have secret guilty thoughts about lynching i don't know.

curious January 29th, 2007 07:13

@abbaon-did you even read that post or the prior one of mine. i stated that i had respect for pearl jam and their political views. i just don't care for most of their music. and i threw in the 'band name' comment because it holds true for nearly all bands i like or don't like. a name should be something that has some meaning and has thought put into it not just something cool they thought up when they were stoned. and i'm opposed to capital punishment, so yeah that would pretty much rule out lynching. and my analogy with the 'grandfather is black' is because that happened recently to my fiance with a co-worker of hers who said 'she was sorry' when she found out that her dad (my eventual father-in-law) was black. the point i was trying to make was that people have their opinions, political beliefs and stereotypes, that if masked can allow people or fans to get along smashingly, but if someone 'spills the beans' then often there is an unfortunate lift. please take time in the future to try and be understanding and not so quick to 'string someone up' for what you thought they were elluding to.

abbaon January 29th, 2007 08:24

Urgh.
Quote:

Originally Posted by curious (Post 17420)
and my analogy with the 'grandfather is black' is because that happened recently to my fiance with a co-worker of hers who said 'she was sorry' when she found out that her dad (my eventual father-in-law) was black. the point i was trying to make was that people have their opinions, political beliefs and stereotypes, that if masked can allow people or fans to get along smashingly, but if someone 'spills the beans' then often there is an unfortunate lift.

That's a really stupid reason to draw that analogy. If you can't make your point without comparing the people you're disagreeing with to racists, the worst people in the world, then your point is not worth making. This isn't Usenet. Keep it clean and above the belt.

Edit: Music? Tom Linkous.

curious January 29th, 2007 10:06

umm you compared me to a clansman you jerk so don't get all high and mighty! being racist is a very bad quality to have i agree but now you're lumping people who have stereotypes and prejudices, a good majority of the people on this earth sadly, even if only slightly, to 'the worst people in the world'. you are the one picking fights. i don't post on any other forum on the internet, but apparently you have quite the experience in upsetting people. and guess what i didn't start the negative comments i was trying to defend artists' expression. by the way i'm not sure how you think racism is worse than any other form of prejudice? 6 million jews were killed by the nazis and i hope you are aware that judaism isn't a race its a religion. this world is full of injustice and suffering and i was trying (i'm far from perfect at expressing my thoughts and opinions and apologize if i ever offend or am unclear) to 'stand up' for those people who are trying to make a difference. maybe you work for clearchannel abbaon as it seems the only logical reason why you would attack/be intollerant of someone trying to defend expression in media.

*offers the olive branch* as i don't want to derail/sour the thread anymore

abbaon January 29th, 2007 10:43

I suggested that racists were the worst people in the world, and you brought up the Nazis… as a counterexample. Well, I can honestly say that I don't have a reply to that. And that means you win! Back on topic.

dteowner January 29th, 2007 14:49

Now, now, let's play nice. Turn the other cheek. Have a Coke and a smile. Sing Kumbaiya (this is a music thread). If y'all don't behave, I'm going to link that "Milkshake" song and we'll all be scarred for life.

And now for something completely different.

Sorry, these folks are so obscure they probably never made a ripple on the internet, so it's safe to say there's no links to be had.
"Fuschia" by Evescape

Edith puts in a little extra info here. An internet ripple, but still no sound.

abbaon January 31st, 2007 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by curious (Post 17384)
sorry to me its like being friends with someone and then you find out "the truth" about them when they say 'yeah my grandfather is black'…and then suddenly you can't be friends with them anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbaon (Post 17419)
sorry to me someone who can't look past a band's ridiculous name to the singer's political views is like a klansman at a lynching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by curious (Post 17384)
if you feel obligated, or guilty, that you should be doing or believing what he is saying then maybe there is a un/subconcious reason for that perhaps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbaon (Post 17419)
maybe you have secret guilty thoughts about lynching i don't know.

I was obviously bristling at curious' ugly comparison, and doing my part to prevent him from repeating it; my magnanimity knows no bounds. Of course, I say obviously, but I mean to everyone but yourself. The perils of posting under the influence, eh? Maybe next time you'll wait until your mind stops reeling before clicking reply.

magerette February 3rd, 2007 20:25

What's this doing here anyway? Thought you had pretty well duked this one out on the original thread. Just a lot of rehashing of silliness now.

dteowner February 3rd, 2007 21:12

It is the old thread, magerette. Corwin cut it out of the "currently listening" thread.

curious February 3rd, 2007 23:46

@magetette-it had ended i thought as well but xSamhainx gave a humorous, albiet slightly insulting 'lowdown' to Jaz, which promted a response by abbaon, which then Jaz cut the thread but didn't include those two later posts. so then abbaon made another post explaining everything from his perspective which why again insulting to me i have no further desire to discuss it.

magerette February 3rd, 2007 23:55

Ah, yes I see—we must remain on topic. :) Thanks for enlightening me, dte.

Just spent two hours lurking at the Codex while I dowloaded the Silverfall demo. Now that's politics and entertainers…;) I learn all my best expletives there.

Corwin February 4th, 2007 01:52

Jaz must have done this, not me; I only just signed in!!


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