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-   -   Lee and his acting in G3 (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1364)

Obthic3 February 17th, 2007 20:44

Lee and his acting in G3
 
I dunno in which thread you talked about Lee and his (character?) traits in Gothic 3….but I played G1+2 again and thats what I found out about Lee:

->He was near Rhobar: GrandMarshall, Personal Assistant or something like that. Rhobar mostly only decided after talking with Lee

->The Barons/Dukes of the Kingdom wanted to get rid of Lee and

->Rhobar's wife got killed and they managed that it looked like Lee was the murderer

->Only because Rhobar was that near him and couldn't really belive this he was not executed immediatly but was sent to the minecolony

->After the barriers fall (G2) his only object was to reach the continent to "clear something"

->Lord Hagen knows Lee and has respect for Lee. If he really would believe that Lee is the murderer of Rhobars wife I would not believe that he would still think like this…and Hagen would have given Lee an amnesty (only Lee not his mercenary's like Lee wanted)


These information (if they come from Lee or others doesn't matter) are all from Lee's point of view, because you get these information from his friends or comrads. You never can talk to a Baron/Duke, because you never met one.

But the way I "know" Lee from G1+2 I never thought that he would have killed Rhobar's wife and I believe that the Dukes/Barons killed her (or gave someone the mission).

And know after playing G1+2 I really can't understand the way Lee is in G3… I thought that what he wanted to "clear" was to get revenge - not through killing Rhobar, but through (killing?) the Barons/Dukes. And if they are all dead that it can't be, that this gives him his intention to kill Rhobar.


If you still know the story of Lee in G1+2 , if you understood it another way, if I'm wrong or whatever you have to say to this…answer ;)

Zaleukos February 17th, 2007 20:59

There is a conversation in G2 that goes something like:
Lee: They shall all pay…
Nameless Hero: Even the king?
Lee: Even the king.

So I wasnt that surprised that he wanted to kill Rhobar. Lee felt abandoned by the king and was rather pissed..

bjon045 February 17th, 2007 21:15

It is sometimes worth killing someone to regain your honour.

Wulf February 18th, 2007 14:23

A good topic Obthic3, it is centered in the central concept of the gothics.

It is necessary to dig deeper into the whole Lee story to get a greater picture of the situation. Lee had upset the plans of the oppositions army….."they"… (whoever 'they' were) had to implicate Lee in some way to get him out of the way so they could retry and seek revenge. They had Rhobars wife (a Queen?) murdered. It is crucial in all of this to be aware that the scene was set in the original Gothic (G1) without any interference or inference from later games of the series, in that theoretical sense the answers and solutions of the *Lee concept* must be contained in G1 themselves…..and they are if you apply some spatial thinking!!!

Here are copies of the words in the two relevent G1 books.

The Battle of Varant - Volume 1.

….but Rhobar, the strategist, chose to attack. He assembled his troops and had them storm the enemy's weak right flank. He did not waste his time on long skirmishes, but thrust into the enemy army like a sword and cut down the defences as though they were made of paper. On and on he drove his troops, advancing on the borders of Varant. He knew that to win this fight, he would have to disperse the enemy army and prevent Gellon and Lukkor uniting and dealing him a crushing blow. He would have to sever their supply lines to secure the victory….
….Gellon was dead, his army beaten, his leaderless troops on the run. But Rhobar was not willing to give the enemy a chance to regroup, and commanded his army to destroy the remainder of the enemy forces. Meanwhile Lukkor took advantage of the moment and struck a decisive blow at King Rhobar's exhausted troops…

The Battle of Varant - Volume 2.

The war had been decided. Varant had lost it's seaports, vital to army supplies. King Rhobar had not lingered on the battle fields for a long time, but left his generals to deal with the few remaining enemy troops. Varant had only one large force left, commanded by Lukkor, the most capable warlord of the Varant army, who had more than once turned defeat into victory.
But now his army was trapped. the situation was hopeless, even though his army greatly outnumbered the enemy. Lee, a war hero from Myrtana, had lured him into this trap, the heavy cavalry had been unable to fight in the thick swamped ground of the narrow valley.
Lee's soldiers had occupied the range of hills surrounding the swamp, and they had struck repeatedly, decimating the army. The desperate sallies his troops had launched had been cut short in pools of bloood. He was beaten.
……………………………….
How come this original story concept seriously pertains to G3? - when we are told to ignore (per KaiRo's interview) the previous games of the series as G3 is a completely new game of it's own when it is obvious they come under the same original influence as per the war of the gods….Innos, Adanos and Beliar which is ironic as KaiRo himself promised the situation would be revisited…and it was applied…….. differently.

txa1265 February 19th, 2007 15:04

Definitely some cool info - I didn't unleash Lee in my run-through, but if I had it would have been nice to understand his motivations better.

I just love all the gray area in the Gothic games …

Obthic3 February 19th, 2007 15:46

First of all, thaks for your answers.

@Zaleukos
I never had this conversation, but with it the Lee in G3 could make sense…

But still its depressing how unimportant such a great character in G3 is-> only for the Quest to kill the King :(

Another problem I have with it is that you (or only me….dunno if its a bug or normal) can't talk again with Lee after killing the King with him, what a pitty…

MudsAnimalFriend February 19th, 2007 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obthic3 (Post 20164)
But still its depressing how unimportant such a great character in G3 is-> only for the Quest to kill the King :(

Yeah, I was expecting a lot more from Lee; hell, I was expecting a lot more from all the NPCs. It was a crying shame to see the major characters from Gothic I & II reduced to cardboard cutouts with little to say and even less to do. Only the terrain design in Gothic III remains true to the overall quality of series, everything else is a but shadow of the previous games.

Hopefully an expansion pack will flesh out the major NPCs, improve the story and fix some of the other issues.

Zaleukos February 20th, 2007 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obthic3 (Post 20164)
First of all, thaks for your answers.

@Zaleukos
I never had this conversation, but with it the Lee in G3 could make sense…

I think he says it either when he tells you to negotiate with Hagen or when you are about to get off the island, but my memory is a bit hazy. It's been a few years since I played through G2:-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obthic3 (Post 20164)
But still its depressing how unimportant such a great character in G3 is-> only for the Quest to kill the King :(

Another problem I have with it is that you (or only me….dunno if its a bug or normal) can't talk again with Lee after killing the King with him, what a pitty…

That's the biggest loss compared to previous installments. While I actually appreciate some of the changes (it would have been a nightmare to take on more than 5 orcs with the old controls) Gothic 3 lacks severely in the NPC department. G1 and G2 had among the best NPCs I've seen in an RPG.


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