RPGWatch Forums - Deus Ex: Human Revolution

RPGWatch Forums (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/index.php)

- News Comments (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10)

- - Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Interview, DLC Previews (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14890)

Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Interview, DLC Previews

I have a very early work gig today, so this will be a shorter news update than most. Rock, Paper, Shotgun has a post-release interview with Deus Ex: HR lead Jean-François Dugas, discussing their view now that the game has shipped, those boss battles and a little on the DLC:

Quote:

RPS: Why do you think the boss battles didn’t work?
Dugas: When we started the goal was to have those boss fights with the same design and rules as the rest of the game. We had our pillars of stealth, of non-lethal actions, and everything else, and we wanted to make sure that was reflected in the bosses, but in the end it was not. It’s the place where people were surprised because they would equip themselves in a certain way and then they got their and everything they’d fought for disappeared. You have to change your mindset, which can be upsetting. I think the biggest weakness there wasn’t the concept of having boss fights, it’s just that our boss fights are not Deus Ex boss fights and that’s why people are complaining about them. I guess we live and learn.
Should we have cut them? It’s a decision we made, we said “well at least they will be entertaining in some fashion”. The biggest surprise, actually, was having released the game and finding that people thought they were frustrating. Not just that they weren’t that interesting, but that they were frustrating. The playtesters internally gave us a lot of good feedback for the game, and on the bosses they felt that the fights were entertaining and making you use what you had learned. They didn’t say they were frustrating. We knew it was not in step with the rest of the game, but the surprise for us was that the playtesting was correct everywhere but the bossfights. So lesson learned.

Moving on to The Missing Link, Bluesnews points out a walkthrough trailer and screens, as well as a number of previews on the 'net:

Here's a snip from the latter:

Quote:

Towards the end of the DLC is a boss fight, which fans won't find as frustrating as those in the main game, Eidos Montreal told Eurogamer.
"We have a boss battle at the end, but it's different from the main game boss battles," producer of The Missing Link Marc-Andre Dufort said.
"You can actually not kill the boss. You can do a non lethal takedown on him. And you can kill him from afar. You can even kill him without him seeing you. It's more of a bigger challenge than a standard boss fight like we have in many games."
"Everything was done in Montreal at Eidos," he continued. "It's a lot less frustrating. But it depends on the way you play. If you played more combat in the main game, you probably didn't have any trouble dealing with the boss fights. So we allow the adaptation of the way you play for that particular boss fight."

More information.

Quote:

We knew it was not in step with the rest of the game, but the surprise for us was that the playtesting was correct everywhere but the bossfights. So lesson learned.

This is interesting. I wonder why the playtesters found them fun and entertaining…

I guess those testers need to be fired since they must have not even tested going a full stealth walkthrough.

They were console gamers, just as the outsourced developer thought he was making fps console boss battles. Funny how all the employees thought they were making and playing a console game. Wonder where they got that idea.

Yet all the public statements from the developers pretend this is all a big surprise.

No, really it's funny isn't it?

Just got to say that Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a stellar game IMO, the Boss fights notwithstanding. I also think these devs show a great deal of smarts and wisdom in not defending the boss fights (compare to Laidlaw and Gaider of Dragon Age II who fight tooth and nail, ad nausea, before admitting something in their work might be less than perfect). IMO there are lots of things that aren't perfect in Deus Ex HR (lack of ammunition and nutrition for example don't make a great deal of sense in the context of the world in which Adam Jensen lives/interacts). But good and bad taken together, Deus Ex HR gets kudos accolades in my book.

Yes, Eidos seems much more honest and upfront when compared with Bioware. Of course, it's safer to diss a bad component when it was outsourced. ;)

Aside from the russian and having my augments stripped (which was just cheap), I personally didn't find the boss fights frustrating - challenging definitely, but that is what I hope from a traditional "boss fight."

I agree with the guy - the boss fights are definitely missing the Deus Ex'ian quotient… but they aren't overly frustrating per se'.

Do you guys really find them frustrating?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drithius (Post 1061094406)

Do you guys really find them frustrating?

I did, because I played mostly with the takedown and they didn't work on them. They also have a ridiculous amount of hitpoints, which make taking them down with guns tedious.

I like the 4th one, but it wasn't really a boss fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drithius (Post 1061094406)

No I had no problem and understand the problems people have but in the end its just a game. Not a deal breaker for me.

Its just the old problem of having to appease every buyer when you know you cant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drithius (Post 1061094406)

Did you realize your augments were stripped in that fight due to consequences of a choice you made earlier in the game?

I found the first boss very easy, the second boss quite hard (because I didn't have EMP protection at the time), and the Russian just about right in terms of challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061094427)

I certainly don't want or expect anyone to cater to my every whim. It's just that when I play a game in a certain style throughout and then suddenly I am forced to use a completely different style it's very jarring and yes I will say frustrating.

I also will say that I am not a shooter fan and generally do not care for them. I am, however, a stealth fan and so that's the aspect that appeals to me. I think for someone like me it's a bigger deal to be forced into playing the shooter role when I wasn't expecting that than it is for someone who is a big shooter fan and generally used to playing them anyway.

I mean, I did it and it didn't kill the game for me. I would still say it's a good game and people should buy it, don't get me wrong. It's just that it felt like a totally different game that was tacked on to me. The fact that those segments were outsourced to someone who was basically a shooter fan and not so much an RPG fan just confirms that.

At least they are acknowledging it was an issue though and that makes me feel a whole lot more validated as a customer then stubbornly refusing to admit any mistakes and blaming me as the customer for not understanding their 'innovation'. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoki (Post 1061094439)

I understand but therein lies the problem of combining a shooter with a rpg. It will come out one way or another or you have to do the dreaded streamlining we hear about lately.

At least they took some blame but it's stupid to blame another company you outsourced to make the game you specified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drithius (Post 1061094406)

Do you guys really find them frustrating?

Well, I haven't finished yet, but I found the first two bosses pretty easy, even with a stealth-based character. I did put a few points into armor early-on, as I remembered that Walt Simons battle in Deus Ex 1 that actually was a bit frustrating for me on the first playthrough. But even without that, I think the battles would've been fine. The trick is simply to (as usual with these types of games) exploit their A.I. patterns. The boss battles I HATE in games are the ones that even when you know the exploit the battle lasts 30 minutes real-time, because the developers have decided that EPIC = LONG. By the end of those battles, my mouse-hand (or console grip) is cramping and I just want the stupid fight to be over.

So, overall I'd rate the boss battles as a mild nuisance in an otherwise very entertaining game.

I skipped every single boss fight in DX (even Simons) and I expected the same in DX:HR. It's just a shame alternate methods were not available this time around. The feeling was more of a disappointment than a frustration, though.