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-   -   KoA: Reckoning - A "Nerd's RPG" @ IGN (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15281)

Dhruin November 2nd, 2011 22:13

KoA: Reckoning - A "Nerd's RPG" @ IGN
 
IGN has a piece titled Reckoning is an RPG Nerd's RPG, which I guess is good news, but I don't think too many are going to trust IGN on that call. Here's a snip from the preview, which was on the PC for once:
Quote:

While I was left utterly impressed by the plot, setting and characters, I was equally impressed by the give-and-take between these various factors and how they all fit in with one another. Like Fallout and Mass Effect, there's an emphasis on choice in Reckoning. But when I spoke with Benjamin Smith, a producer at EA, about Reckoning's choice system, he assured me that it wasn't quite as punishing as what you'd find in, say, Fallout 3 or Fallout: New Vegas. Choices may direct you into different conversation branches and give the game a fresh feeling, but making the wrong choice won't cut out a piece of content for you like Fallout 3 and New Vegas so infamously did. Likewise, the game's persuasion system may net you different rewards in a side quest or more experience points for completing a task but won't lock you out of finding or completing any task in the game.
More information.

Black Rune November 2nd, 2011 22:13

"I don't think too many are going to trust IGN on that call". <—-EXACTLY !

Nerevarine November 2nd, 2011 22:25

"Choices may direct you into different conversation branches and give the game a fresh feeling, but making the wrong choice won't cut out a piece of content for you like Fallout 3 and New Vegas so infamously did."

Ah, so…what they're getting at is that there aren't any choices then. I have to say the whole "never lock a player out of content and make sure they can see everything on a single playthrough" is extremely problematic in modern game design. If I can see everything in one plathrough as a result of my choices not carrying any weight, then I have a hard time immersing myself into a game world and buying into the setting, and I also struggle to identify with the "role" I'm supposed to be "playing" in the "game."

As a side-note, it is a sad day when Mass Effect is held up as a pinnacle of choice and consequence in a game, rather than a game with true C&C. Hell, if they have to choose something modern, The Witcher franchise completely blows ME out of the water in the category of choice.

Asdraguuhl November 2nd, 2011 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerevarine (Post 1061103136)
Ah, so…what they're getting at is that there aren't any choices then. I have to say the whole "never lock a player out of content and make sure they can see everything on a single playthrough" is extremely problematic in modern game design. If I can see everything in one plathrough as a result of my choices not carrying any weight, then I have a hard time immersing myself into a game world and buying into the setting, and I also struggle to identify with the "role" I'm supposed to be "playing" in the "game."

As a side-note, it is a sad day when Mass Effect is held up as a pinnacle of choice and consequence in a game, rather than a game with true C&C. Hell, if they have to choose something modern, The Witcher franchise completely blows ME out of the water in the category of choice.

I agree. It seems that in this game they allow you to see all and be all in one playthrough…….then what is the point of roleplaying?

kalniel November 2nd, 2011 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdraguuhl (Post 1061103143)
I agree. It seems that in this game they allow you to see all and be all in one playthrough…….then what is the point of roleplaying?

I guess it's about having fun…

DeepO November 2nd, 2011 23:08

Quote:

Likewise, the game's persuasion system may net you different rewards in a side quest or more experience points for completing a task but won't lock you out of finding or completing any task in the game.
Sounds like a game for nerds alright.

Choices which are not as harsh as those in Fallout 3 which is nearly legendary at these will certainly go well with the game´s respec function.

wolfgrimdark November 2nd, 2011 23:09

Quote:

but making the wrong choice won't cut out a piece of content for you like Fallout 3 and New Vegas so infamously did.
Infamously needs to be fixed to famously.

If you can see all the content, join every faction, do everything, no matter what choice you make then why even bother with a choice? What FNV did was awesome … they got it right not wrong.

I remember many quests where I lacked any number of skill points or stats to select certain dialogue and I was like … damn I wonder what would happen? What will they say or do? If I could just do it all no matter what there would be no thrill or excitement. Non of the wonderufl agonizing over what stats to pick and what skills.

Still excited about KoA but this was the first news I read that was very dissapointing. I want choices to close off some content but open up other content.

Ball_Breaker November 2nd, 2011 23:39

I'm still looking forward for KoA, but I think it's taking too much from Oblivion and too less from The Witcher and Dark Souls (about 'choices' in contemporary RPGs, of course ;)).
Anyway, when the game will be out, I'll check some info about factions, and I'll pick the one I like the most and I'll try to stick with it, leaving out the others for the next playthrough.
My main concern remains the main plot, I hope it'll be interesting enough…

Motoki November 3rd, 2011 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark (Post 1061103151)
Infamously needs to be fixed to famously.

If you can see all the content, join every faction, do everything, no matter what choice you make then why even bother with a choice? What FNV did was awesome … they got it right not wrong.

Agreed. Too many games wimp out in this area because they want the player to experience everything, but what is even the point of choice then? You are basically just along for the ride.

SonOfCapiz November 3rd, 2011 02:14

fah, if they're so scared about the player missing content because of choices, they might as well give the player all skills and items. Heaven forbid a player doesn't see how a particular skill works.

For me, this means KoA ISN'T an RPG for Nerds, and IGN spinning it that way means they're hoping to get that crowd on board nevertheless

Saxon1974 November 3rd, 2011 03:17

I have a bad gut feeling about this game. It sounds like they are saying it's a game for hard core RPG'ers but most of the stuff I have seen screams going for the mainstream audience….

Not gonna buy this on day one I dont think, will probably wait to hear some feedback from sources I trust first.

Couchpotato November 3rd, 2011 03:56

Its IGN I stopped listening to everything they review and write about. There pc section is among the worst as they don't care about the pc platform.

skavenhorde November 3rd, 2011 04:05

Have you guys read the comments? It really does surprise that even the people commenting on the game are getting excited about it. This is IGN we are talking about and most of the people there are of the casual gamer persuasion.

The game still sounds great and can't wait to get my hands on it. Maybe if the casual gamers are on board too then this one might be a surprise hit.

sakichop November 3rd, 2011 05:30

I found it weird that he went out of his way to say that the dropped off a whole pc to play it on and then he plays it with a controller.

I don't like not having real choices or the graphics. especially the trails behind the weapons.

Zephyr November 3rd, 2011 15:50

I prefer choices and different paths. Sometimes I like to play as a Fighter type character. Other times as a Stealth/Sniper, or a Ranger/Archer. One of the lesser types is a Magic user. I also tend toward the Good side. The point is, I want to be able to replay the game with a different flavor and a different outcome to see what would happen if I decide on Path 'B' instead of Path 'A'. If everything is out there in one play-through no matter what I choose, I tend to feel a bit cheated. Like, "That's it? That's all I get?"

Nerevarine November 3rd, 2011 16:02

Heh, just out of morbid curiosity I checked the article's comments section to see if anyone mentioned the concept of choice as discussed in this thread, and there actually was a comment that was similar to something you would see here. Needless to say, no one agreed with him and talked about how great it was in a game like Oblivion that the player was never "restricted" from joining any faction or completing every quest without consequence. Unbelievable…Well, it's believable since RPGs have gone mainstream, but it's so diametrically opposed to what I believe RPGs should be about.

Asdraguuhl November 3rd, 2011 16:15

Well, talking about Oblivion, there was this rediculous moment. In my playthrough, I played a mage and did the mage guild quests and at the end I became head of the guild. At some point I decided to join the warrior guild as well and one particular quest consisted in aiding a mage that hired a warrior to do some dirty work. The thing is that in principle I was her boss yet she treated me like some retarded mercenary. My reaction was: WTF, I should have you fired, b*tch!

DeepO November 3rd, 2011 16:38

I appreciated a Thieves Guild quest in which I had to steal a staff from Archmage´s quarters and place a note from Gray Fox in Archmage´s nightstand, while being the Archmage myself.

Falchor November 3rd, 2011 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakichop (Post 1061103235)
I don't like not having real choices or the graphics. especially the trails behind the weapons.

Sums up my feelings too.. graphics feel a bit cartoon-y for my taste and the lack of real choice is disheartening. Of course if Salvatore's story is really good, I'd still pick it up and probably enjoy it, but this has dampened my enthusiasm a bit.

Fantasm November 3rd, 2011 19:33

Is there really no room for different types of RPGs? Do we really need everything to be one-size-fits-all?

Look, I really enjoyed Fallout:New Vegas and The Witcher 2. I haven't played Alpha Protocol, but there are lots of folks here who thought it was pretty good. There are likely other examples of heavy C&C games I'm forgetting.

But I also enjoyed Divinity 2. And I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins. And both Drakensang games. And Oblivion (sorta). And Baldur's Gate. And NWN2. And many other games that you pretty much see all the content in one play-through and then you're done.

I'll probably be in the minority here, but I prefer the latter style over the former. Mainly because I'm pushing 40 and have a life and just don't have time to replay games. I never have gone all the way through a game a 2nd time (with the notable exception of Diablo 2, but that was a long time ago). I never did finish F:NV, and despite my sincere desire to replay Witcher 2 to experience a completely different Act 2, I just haven't gotten around to it.

If there were no games being made with heavy C&C, then I can see why folks would be up in arms. But the market is providing both styles, and I think that's great.

I'll also add that just because your choices don't cut off content in Reckoning, that doesn't mean they don't have an impact on the game world, the story, and the characters. In fact, this week's Dev Q&A touches on this in a response to a general question about quest completion:

Quote:

Q: Will quests have multiple ways to be finished? Such as instead of killing someone, you can persuade them to go away, etc. – By Fluent

A: Yes, there will be some quests in which the outcome can be altered by making different decisions. Some quests that have Persuasion options in them, may also give you extra EXP or varying rewards based on successful or failed Persuasion attempts. Quests which allow you the option to make different narrative choices may result in an NPC’s demeanor changing, one NPC living versus another, allowing the player to either keep a particular item or return it to its owner, and many other scenarios. There are also quests where you may decide that rather than attempt to persuade an NPC, you can help them out by running a side errand for them to progress the quest, or bribe them with gold to save yourself the time of running the errand. NPCs that you agree to help may offer you services after completing a quest for them, where they previously didn't offer you any before.

As you might imagine, another alternate way to prematurely end a quest would be to kill the quest giver or an NPC crucial to that quest. Some side-quests are linked together, or supplement the outcomes of other quests, so killing off quest NPCs may hinder the end result of a quest chain. You may have to complete favors for a few NPCs before they will unlock more quests, in which case killing the original quest givers might never allow you to unlock the follow up quests (sometimes, this may cause you to miss out on valuable rewards as well!). If you complete the tasks asked of you, the NPCs may reward you with certain weapons or items that will aid you in defeating a more powerful enemy at the end of the quest chain.

Quests in Amalur offer a wide variety of exploration, choice, and reward. I have found that this adds greatly to replay value, especially if you’re like me and enjoy creating multiple saves so you can see how things would have turned out if you made all the opposite decisions on another play-through. – By Kitty “Neko” Hughes, Level Designer


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