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-   The Witcher 2 (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   Do you really support CDProjekts alliance with corporate copyright trolls? (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15635)

darkling December 8th, 2011 19:59

Do you really support CDProjekts alliance with corporate copyright trolls?
 
http://torrentfreak.com/drm-free-wit…irates-111207/

Really, do you?

This is worse than DRM, how can you turn a blind eye to it?

joxer December 8th, 2011 20:36

Basically I want to say that I support this action (if I understood it correctly, based on IP addresses or whatever cdprojekt can pinpoint exactly who pirated the game over torrent sites). However, IIRC, european comitee of whatever banned even the theoretical possibility of providers controlling or spying on internet users!
Also note here that torrents, despite what ppl think, are not the primary pirating media. It's filesharing services (rapidshare, filefactory, megaupload, thousands of those) and I don't believe those sites will give away any data just like that as it'd be bad for business.

In the end I don't see CDprojekt will succeed in this effort at all. Instead, someone should make them another suggestion.
In my country there is a certain gaming portal and today they've brought the news that the game Serious Sam 3, if pirated, sometime the middle of the game, randomly, an unkillable frog appears and chases you all over the place, annoys you with it's pathetic damage but won't quit till you're dead. This was supposedly reported as a bug on the official SS3 site (dunno if all of it is true, I'm not playing it as I'm not into FPS genre), and then ppl discovered that it's not a bug but a "hidden feature", hehe
Anyway, who didn't bought SS3 but pirated it, got what he deserved. Either now they'll buy the game or will never pass the "deadly frog of doom". Even if that frog is removed by cracking the game, who guarantees there is not another unkillable butterfly later in the pirated game? :)

Now imagine if all who pirated The Witcher 2 were attacked by an unkillable drowner you just can't escape from in the middle of the game?
With that strategy against piracy, who needs DRM?

In any case, I've written in another thread, The Witcher 2 is not only one of the greatest games ever but also doesn't contain DRM (after patching it). And instead of supporting developers who didn't turn to lame Ubisoft schemes, ppl are pirating it. Unbelievable.

EDIT:
Sorry it's not a frog, it's a scorpion and there is a video of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e91q5…layer_embedded

darkling December 8th, 2011 21:24

I'll never support CDProjekt financially while they're sending blind harassment letters to people based on something as flimsy as IP addresses. That's repugnant behavior. It's the same behavior that turned everyone against the music industry. They don't deserve a penny from me. They're bigger crooks then their targets.

GothicGothicness December 8th, 2011 21:33

If there is no DRM people will always find another "excuse" to pirate.

If they don't have proof of someone pirating a game, that person will never be forced to pay anyway, so if they should by mistake get a letter, why worry? If they can get the proof from the ISP who it was and that person get sentanced they deserve it……. so I don't see what the problem is….

Tilean December 8th, 2011 21:34

I agree with the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer
if I understood it correctly, based on IP addresses or whatever cdprojekt can pinpoint exactly who pirated the game over torrent sites

Well, you entirely missed the point, which is that they cannot pinpoint pirates "exactly" by the IP. There is, to quote the article, "collateral damage" just by relying on IP address technology, but in addition this can also be caused by people who intentionally hijack open wifi networks to pirate stuff. I personally know of three instances of this happening (although without legal repercussions to the individuals involved) and I assume this behavior is rampant in student dormitories and university campuses.

That CDP has used this technique earlier for TW1 is quite interesting and showing of their corporate ethics. To me it has become quite clear in the recent years that CDP is a company of dubious quality. They tend to overhype their games akin to Oblivion-era Bethesda, but get very little flak for it. They sell games with "illegal" cracks made by the very same pirates they pursue and pull ridiculous marketing stunts. That they hypocritically portray themselves as a beacon of hope for a DRM-free industry while using such questionable measures, is just one flaw among many.

I suspect that CDP's policies and their behind-closed-doors ethics were one of the real reasons behind Tomasz Gop's departure, as he seemed to be a genuinely passionate gamer.

That said, I still bought TW2 earlier today for the reduced price. Although I have to admit that I would have considered the purchase more if I had known of this earlier, as I can be quite adamant about issues like this.

blatantninja December 8th, 2011 21:36

I have no issues with their practices. They offered it DRM free and people still chose to pirate. Sure, some people get caught up in these 'sweeps' but 9 times out of 10 its because the person was dumb enough to leave their Wi-Fi open to any connection.

Tilean December 8th, 2011 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness (Post 1061111446)
If there is no DRM people will always find another "excuse" to pirate.

If they don't have proof of someone pirating a game, that person will never be forced to pay anyway, so if they should by mistake get a letter, why worry? If they can get the proof from the ISP who it was and that person get sentanced they deserve it……. so I don't see what the problem is….

There is no absolute proof for pirating. It's all circumstantial and to disprove claims like this is fairly time consuming and annoying. There is also the issue of one's privacy that inevitably gets invaded by such a claim.

The thing is a lot of people (at least in Germany) pay up if they got involved in an Internet scam, even though the "contract" they have signed is not legally binding because of "dishonest business practices". For the simple reason that they want to have peace of mind on the issue. So to assume that most people would just let it rest and be willing to live with the annoyance of an impending court case, is just unrealistic. And it certainly is not out of the question that at a least a portion of these unjustly accused would pay up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blatantninja
I have no issues with their practices. They offered it DRM free and people still chose to pirate. Sure, some people get caught up in these 'sweeps' but 9 times out of 10 its because the person was dumb enough to leave their Wi-Fi open to any connection.

So to prey on the technologically unsavvy or as you put it "dumb" is acceptable business practice for you? God bless, America.

blatantninja December 8th, 2011 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilean (Post 1061111471)
So to prey on the technologically unsavvy or as you put it "dumb" is acceptable business practice for you? God bless, America.

Even my parents, who are techno-idiots, figured out how to enable the encryption on their wi-fi. The vast, vast majority of people getting those notices are pirates though (or someone living in the household is).

If people didn't pirate, would anyone have to worry about these threats? Put the blame where it belongs, those that think they have the right to something they have not paid for.

joxer December 8th, 2011 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilean (Post 1061111471)
The thing is a lot of people (at least in Germany) pay up if they got involved in an Internet scam

Oh and now if "the letter" went to a wrong address it's a scam everyone who receives a letter is forced to pay for?
I for certain wouldn't pay. I have retail TW1 and GOG's TW2 and they can send me thousands of letters for all I care. Even if I didn't buy both of them I would still refuse to pay since I didn't pirate them. And there is no court that would make me to pay for something I didn't do. But I still won't say CDprojekt is doing a bad thing. They're fighting against thievery, if they want to check on me, good, fine by me.

Tilean December 8th, 2011 22:42

Joxer, your reading comprehension skills are fantastic. You posted two times, and two times you entirely missed the point of the post you referred to.

It's a statistically provable fact that people (maybe it's an exclusively German phenomenon, altough I doubt it) tend to pay up for these scams, because the threat of a letter from court scares the hell out of them. If you think you would be unaffected by a similar situation, you are simply being dishonest with yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blatantninja
If people didn't pirate, would anyone have to worry about these threats? Put the blame where it belongs, those that think they have the right to something they have not paid for.

So a company using scumbag business tactics is okay, because pirates behaved like dicks first?

rossrjensen December 8th, 2011 23:26

I tend to agree they shouldn't stoop to the same levels as pirates to get what they think ought to rightfully be theirs. It doesn't sound like it would really hold up anyway. But it certainly is a different way to try and tackle the problem. It doesn't really matter much to me, I wanted to reward them for releasing the game DRM free, so I bought it on Gog when it was released (as well as the Witcher Enhanced, despite owning a physical copy of it already). I haven't even beat the Witcher yet and I don't plan to play the Witcher 2 until after I am finished with the first game.

GothicGothicness December 9th, 2011 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilean (Post 1061111471)
There is no absolute proof for pirating. It's all circumstantial and to disprove claims like this is fairly time consuming and annoying. There is also the issue of one's privacy that inevitably gets invaded by such a claim.

The thing is a lot of people (at least in Germany) pay up if they got involved in an Internet scam, even though the "contract" they have signed is not legally binding because of "dishonest business practices". For the simple reason that they want to have peace of mind on the issue. So to assume that most people would just let it rest and be willing to live with the annoyance of an impending court case, is just unrealistic. And it certainly is not out of the question that at a least a portion of these unjustly accused would pay up.

If a lot of people in Germany pays up if they got involved in an Internet scam, they need to learn. It is as simple as that. Internet Scams increase by the day and becomes more and more common. Most of the time your money goes to criminals, who can use it to increase their crime syndicate.

So if they run out of money by paying CDProjekt it is actually much better than the money ending up in the pockets of criminals, and they can be used for a good cause making an even better the witcher game.

Dhruin December 9th, 2011 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkling (Post 1061111411)
Really, do you?

Yeah, really, I do.

Quote:

This is worse than DRM, how can you turn a blind eye to it?
Because your propaganda is no better than theirs?

fatBastard() December 9th, 2011 13:03

No DRM on one hand and going after the pirates on the other? Absolutely. I think it is a great idea. I don't think they'll be able to get the hard core pirates this way but if nothing else it might work as a deterrent to the on-and-off pirates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilean (Post 1061111471)
There is no absolute proof for pirating.

Well, isn't that convenient …

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilean (Post 1061111471)
It's all circumstantial and to disprove claims like this is fairly time consuming and annoying.

Good. Perhaps once you've proven that it wasn't you, you'll be more careful about letting some "stranger" use your network without you knowing it.

There are indeed many grey areas about how to combat piracy properly but it quite frankly makes me sick constantly having to listen to arguments akin to how it is better to let a rapist molest the entire female population of a tow than to falsely accuse (a later acquit) the wrong person.

This may not be the best way to combat piracy but at least it is a message that says: "No! Piracy is NOT Ok, so stop doing it!"

blatantninja December 9th, 2011 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilean (Post 1061111484)
So a company using scumbag business tactics is okay, because pirates behaved like dicks first?

Show me a better, realistic solution.

GhanBuriGhan December 9th, 2011 13:38

Yup, I fully support CDProjects course in this. They offered a great game, DRM free. It was rapidly available for sale, too. Anybody who still pirates such a game deserves to be made aware that he is stealing.

Gorath December 10th, 2011 00:44

Normal behaviour. All bigger publishers do it, and most smaller ones too. They routinely send out 10.000s C&Ds every years, each of them accompanied by an invoice.

Couchpotato December 16th, 2011 01:04

If your stupid enough to not know how to use the tools available to block these tactics your an idiot. There are a few free tools and paid vpn services you can use.

Its just not because of torrents it's to protect your isp number from being used by others.

CountChocula December 16th, 2011 04:21

I wonder why they are focusing on Germany for this action?

Couchpotato December 17th, 2011 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountChocula (Post 1061112874)
I wonder why they are focusing on Germany for this action?

Probably due to legal jargon here compared to Germany. Don't worry though if the new bill SOPA passes congress the us will assume control of the internet.

Here is a link if anyone is interested or doesn't know about.
Link-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act

Apparently every internet user is a pirate if it passes. Just watching youtube videos will make you one.



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