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-   -   SWtOR release (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15695)

DArtagnan December 15th, 2011 12:52

SWtOR release
 
So, any new impressions? :)

I'm getting in today or tomorrow, I guess - but just to get the ball rolling….

I don't expect to change my mind about it, but I'll have to give it a proper shot for the "free" month.

But I'd be interested to hear what you guys think about it.

JemyM December 15th, 2011 13:09

My opinion is no.

First I see alternate life products as corrosive and damaging. The greatest danger is the pull. MMORPG's cannot be put away and played at a later time, it's driven on social relations and events that pulls the player to participate, thus give up real life responsibilities and relations in favor for the game. There is a value in being able to pause and take up a game at a later time, or being able to end the game and go home and if you can't the game needs to end for you. I am actually quite worried about a friend who just begun to play as I know this will have a large negative impact on his life, his function, his interest, his social life, his family etc. Even after a month the long-lasting damages of MMORPG gaming begins to show, him being unable to engage in social discussions since there's nothing else to talk about than the game, not to mention giving up social events in order to play the game (which he already did despite saying he was immune). After a year the damages are starting to be permanent and only lifechanging events may set the person straight again starting with the person rebuilding what he sacrificed to play the game.

Second games as a social engagement relies on the contenders and there are no way to pick and choose in these kind of games. You are likely to meet numerous "Darth Righthand" and "Hansolololo" on your way to the starport which will break the illusion that you are in a starwars universe and instead remind you that you are in a society of people not taking the game seriously.

If you intend to build a character and a social life, do so in real life. Keep games to be a part-time leisure.

Alrik Fassbauer December 15th, 2011 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JemyM (Post 1061112713)
There is a value in being able to end the game and go home and if you can't the game needs to end for you.

Yes, I agree, this is a negative point on online games - in general. They don't have any end. Except the player's death.

The end is on the client's side, not on the server's side, originally.
Okay, some online games become shut down because they don't generate enough rofits (newest victim . Lego Universe Online), but right now the goal is to just keep it going, keep the players there, seated in their stools, like milking cows.

Plus the addiction issue.

I predict that it will need many, many years until politicians realise that online gaming is like milking, and that it procudes additions, too. I mean this from a health standpoint. Addiction is unhealthy, as is too much seating and not moving legs, going out for a walk etc. . It just isn't healthy, because humanity simply isn't built for long seating, just from the evolutionary point of view. We are meant to be running around.

And if we don't care, then we might end up like the humans in "Wall E".

DArtagnan December 15th, 2011 13:19

I was asking about SWtOR in particular Jemy.

Not that your perception of MMOs can't be interesting, but it's rather inappropriate given the specific nature of the topic :)

If you start a general MMO thread, I'll gladly take part. I tend to agree with some of what you say, actually.

JemyM December 15th, 2011 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061112716)
I was asking about SWtOR in particular Jemy.

If SWtOR is sucessful, there will not be a KOTOR3.
If SWtOR is unsucessful, there will not be a KOTOR3.

azarhal December 15th, 2011 13:58

After playing for 2 days already (after work), the game is awfully addictive and lots of fun in groups (duo-ing with opposite class on Origin world is pretty fun, flashpoint are as well).

Story is standard BioWare stuff (cliché, predictable, but push the rights buttons), although the consular is more "shade of grey" than the JK. I find the Gameplay smooth as well. Unlike what a lot of people claims, the VO make a lot of difference. I don't feel like I'm doing quests to level up, I'm enjoying the story.

It have more exploration than other BioWare games with hidden holocrons, nice vista and loot chests. Also, jumping! I think the game is an improvement on most BioWare games in the gameplay department, some might disagree. It also feel Starwasy enough to me. Music is great too. There is one track that start when you attack a boss on Tython that is just epic.

Crafting is fun as well and crafted gear have the crafter's name on them. I think it's a cool idea, at least now I know who made my skirt (I'm playing a Consular).

The modding system is a BIG improvement too, I looted an "orange" lightsaber on the Essless and I can keep it all the way up to end game by fitting mods in it. I also found out that you can buy the same lightsaber with Coruscant commendations, so you don't have to rerun the Essless many times to win it either.

Right now this is about it.

DArtagnan December 15th, 2011 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061112720)
After playing for 2 days already (after work), the game is awfully addictive and lots of fun in groups (duo-ing with opposite class on Origin world is pretty fun, flashpoint are as well).

Story is standard BioWare stuff (cliché, predictable, but push the rights buttons), although the consular is more "shade of grey" than the JK. I find the Gameplay smooth as well. Unlike what a lot of people claims, the VO make a lot of difference. I don't feel like I'm doing quests to level up, I'm enjoying the story.

It have more exploration than other BioWare games with hidden holocrons, nice vista and loot chests. Also, jumping! I think the game is an improvement on most BioWare games in the gameplay department, some might disagree. It also feel Starwasy enough to me. Music is great too. There is one track that start when you attack a boss on Tython that is just epic.

Crafting is fun as well and crafted gear have the crafter's name on them. I think it's a cool idea, at least now I know who made my skirt (I'm playing a Consular).

The modding system is a BIG improvement too, I looted an "orange" lightsaber on the Essless and I can keep it all the way up to end game by fitting mods in it. I also found out that you can buy the same lightsaber with Coruscant commendations, so you don't have to rerun the Essless many times to win it either.

Right now this is about it.

Thank you for your impressions!

Glad you're having fun ;)

rune_74 December 15th, 2011 15:20

It feels like KOTOR 3. Been playing for about a day. You can play in groups, or not. I love the conversations when you are grouped, each character gets a choice of what to say, and then it randomly selects who gets to talk at that time…it can lead to some seriously interesting interactions. Very polished so far, and a lot of fun.

DArtagnan December 15th, 2011 15:47

I got in…. I'll see if I can't get a few hours to play tonight.

hishadow December 15th, 2011 16:20

Paged by friends to join yesterday. Receiving preorder copy tomorrow maybe.

fadedc December 15th, 2011 21:03

My big question isn't how does it compare to KoTOR or other Bioware games, but how does it compare to WoW and other MMOs. I've been going back and forth quite a bit on whether I should buy it.

wolfgrimdark December 15th, 2011 21:37

I only have about 20 hours playing Beta and with Skyrim taking up my time haven't started it since I got early access (although its ready to go). Me and my roommate will be playing it starting next week.

From my beta playing I thought it was a good game. Highlights were the flashpoints and choices in dialogue, the story, companions and the overall theme. Low points tended to be some of the art design for the characters, the combat and lack of pizzazz (a personal thing of course).

I think playing with a friend a few hours a week will be fun although its certainly not something I could ever sink a lot of time into. While an MMO can be addictive I play them very casually. I don't like raiding and have little interest in gear progression or items. I just like the story, exploring and the like.

I haven't played enough, however, to know how well my play style will adapt to those aspects. If an MMO lets me play casually (i.e. isn't so hard I am forced to get into a gear/faction/etc grind mode) then I tend to play them for awhile.

I think SW will be fun in that regard since there is some story and I will have a partner to help with the combat - and luckily he has the same play style.

Anyhow back to Skyrim :)

DArtagnan December 19th, 2011 11:01

I played quite a bit this weekend, trying to make the most of my "free" month.

It's growing on me, actually.

I still think it's dreadfully uninspired in several ways, and I'd love a more unique take on the genre from a developer with this kind of clout.

But, still, the story is presented well enough in Bioware fashion - and it makes the levelling process less grindy. The quests themselves are still extremely grindy - but having a story behind them helps more than I would have thought.

What surprised me, however, was my fondness for the Jedi Sentinel class. After learning more about the mechanics and abilities - I think I've found one that I'll stick with. It has enough toys to keep me going - and though I find combat in PvP rather slow and clunky - much like WAR - I really like some of the things they've done in terms of the top-layer.

Something that WoW PvP never did right was implementing ways to excel or stand out in PvP - rather than it being merely about killing or taking objectives. They've taken it a step further - with ways to contribute that I think are much more suited for the various playstyles people find for themselves. So, you get extra for doing what you're good at - and I really like that. I guess they took this from WAR - seeing as how they have many of the same developers on the team.

Also, there's the mysterious "World PvP" to look forward to. If I were to believe Bioware - it's "to die for" - but I'll take that with a grain of salt. It seems rather uninspired and pointless based on what little beta feedback I've found dealing with it.

But it makes me hopeful that they seem to emphasise it when speaking about endgame activities - and even if it's not particularly good at this time, there's the hope that they will continue to develop it. It's certainly my hope that they won't go fully WoW for this aspect.

Also, they're apparently working on "something significant" for space combat at this time, and they're keeping it a secret until now. One shouldn't be too optimistic, naturally, but I really really hope they're going for the "Jump to Lightspeed" kind of addition. Something like that done well, would REALLY make me see the point of endgame play.

azarhal December 19th, 2011 13:56

[QUOTE=DArtagnan;1061113394]But, still, the story is presented well enough in Bioware fashion - and it makes the levelling process less grindy. The quests themselves are still extremely grindy - but having a story behind them helps more than I would have thought./QUOTE]

The only grindy part is if you bother with the bonus part of missions. They are optional and don't need to be completed, but they give lots of XP. If you do everything on each planet you will over level the content easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061113394)
I guess they took this from WAR - seeing as how they have many of the same developers on the team.

WAR lead PvP designer, Gabe Amangelo, is SWTOR lead PvP designer. He stole his own ideas…

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061113394)
Also, they're apparently working on "something significant" for space combat at this time, and they're keeping it a secret until now. One shouldn't be too optimistic, naturally, but I really really hope they're going for the "Jump to Lightspeed" kind of addition. Something like that done well, would REALLY make me see the point of endgame play.

I don't think it's going to be a "jump to lightspeed" thing. I suspect it might be closer to just drop the "on-rail" part of the space missions and maybe had PvP "maps".

DArtagnan December 19th, 2011 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061113422)
The only grindy part is if you bother with the bonus part of missions. They are optional and don't need to be completed, but they give lots of XP. If you do everything on each planet you will over level the content easily.

It's grindy for me. That's because killing samey mobs over and over to reach the objective, which is what you do in 90% of the quests - is grindy to me. The bonus objectives only make this worse - and most people will want extra XP.

Quote:

WAR lead PvP designer, Gabe Amangelo, is SWTOR lead PvP designer. He stole his own ideas…
As I said, they took it from WAR. I didn't mention anyone stealing, nor do I care as long as it works.

Quote:

I don't think it's going to be a "jump to lightspeed" thing. I suspect it might be closer to just drop the "on-rail" part of the space missions and maybe had PvP "maps".
You have any solid information related to this?

DArtagnan December 19th, 2011 15:51

By the way, I'm on an English RP-PvP server "Lord Calypho" if anyone in EU wants to tackle a few flashpoints or whatever. My current char is called "Casus".

Maylander December 20th, 2011 13:10

Well, I managed to get Republic's first level 50 yesterday on Hidden Beks. The name's Keld Mandragoran if anyone's wondering. I found the levelling process very smooth for an MMO - never had to grind just to get xp, quests usually lead me to where I had to go, never ran out of content.

There are certainly issues that should be fixed. Among other things it's never clear when bonus objectives are about to run out - sometimes they tend to stick with you through the whole questline, other times they just vanish when you complete an objective.

Anyway, there are a lot of minor things like the example above, but the main issue right now is this: Queues. Long, long queues. If you happen to log in at the wrong time, you often need to wait 30-90 minutes depending on server. I hope this is a temporary problem, as I'm simply not willing to the vanilla days of WoW where such queues were common.

DArtagnan December 20th, 2011 13:24

Level 50? You really are a machine :)

It's launch. They can't just open servers for the first few days, because then they'll be committed to hosting them indefinitely.

I'm sure the queues will get to managable levels within a week, where they'll have a better idea of what they need.

It's simply impossible to handle such a popular release without SOME kind of issue, and I think server queues are much better than constant server crashes - and I don't think it's wise of them to open up enough servers to minimise queues, because then they'll be left with an empty wasteland in a few months.

woges December 20th, 2011 14:00

Hidden Beks was high pop very early. I was thinking of playing on it but noticed the pop and didn't. I'm close to level 30 (near the end of act 1), not quite as far as I made it in beta, it's pretty good at this point.

DArtagnan December 21st, 2011 12:09

Well, after learning exactly what the Bolster system does for PvP, I'm officially impressed.

That's one brilliant innovation.


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