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-   -   Hungary - on the straight road into Dictatorship ? (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15903)

Alrik Fassbauer January 5th, 2012 13:06

Hungary - on the straight road into Dictatorship ?
 
Hello, everyone,

I'm very much concerned about what's currently going on in Hungary.

It resembles a bit how Berluconi came into power, but this time things are much, much worse, because elected right-wing populists are exeedingly distrting the whole constitution of the country !

Mr. Orban is eroding Hungary's democracy in a similar manner like Berlusconi did - but with more concerning goals : He tries to install his party of Fidesz as an (if possible) neverending source of power (similar to what Berlusconi did), which includes drawing lines of election areas so that his party gets more votes than ever, installing party members and even his wife into central key positions, limiting what's the press is allowed to write about (in a similar manner to late laws of Berlusconi) - and the worst of it all is . He dances with right-wing extremists !

These are articles I picked out of the net which write about it :
General view I : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117
General view II : http://www.spiegel.de/international/…805112,00.html (funny that they are only citing left-wing newspapers ???)
View on recent economical decisions : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…racy-hungary-0
Blog entry : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…hungary?page=7

I would not want to live there anymore.

Alrik

Tanno January 5th, 2012 20:20

And unfortunately, I have some friends fellow kendokas(Kendo athletes) living there. I hope they be well. They're good people. I don't like the righties.

zahratustra January 5th, 2012 20:35

As a Pole, I have been watching Hungary with interest and the only thing which prevents this country from becoming a token democracy is (IMO) the fact that country is broke and need EU and IMF to bail them out. So economic situation slows Orban down and he is also loosing popular support. It will be interesting to see who will win this race: Orban or economy.

BUT those are views of an interested outsider. I would really like to hear views of Hungarian members of this forum.

Glyphwright January 5th, 2012 21:23

Another example of why the European Union needs to have more power over national governments. The fiscal union should have been created when the euro was first adopted, not ten years later now that the entire Southern European economy is crashing. And the Union-level government should have the ability to prevent authoritarian legislation like this from being passed in any of its member-states.

KapitanUnterhosen January 10th, 2012 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061119227)
I would not want to live there anymore.

Alrik

I hope those hot hungarian women feel the same :biggrin:

zakhal January 10th, 2012 13:02

From corrupt left wing to extreme right wing. I can understand them for not voting the corrupt lefties again but didnt they have any other alternative?

szokol January 10th, 2012 14:27

There is no alternative right now, but many of us hope there will be.
Half of the voters can not choose from the current parties, so there is big need for change.
Most of us voted for FIDESZ, because we had enough from the corrupt, stupid MSZP ("the lefties"), and what have got? An even more corrupt, etatist, cripto-communist wannabe dictator.

He is losing support fast, so he will be stopped. We won't allow another dictatorship after 40 years of russian ensalvement.

Alrik Fassbauer January 10th, 2012 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakhal (Post 1061120270)
From corrupt left wing to extreme right wing. I can understand them for not voting the corrupt lefties again but didnt they have any other alternative?

Quote:

Originally Posted by szokol (Post 1061120281)
Most of us voted for FIDESZ, because we had enough from the corrupt, stupid MSZP ("the lefties"), and what have got? An even more corrupt, etatist, cripto-communist wannabe dictator.

This reminds me a little bit of the elections in Egypt, or what happened in Iran when the Shah was thrown out.

People seem to tend to the other extreme of what they have endured.

szokol January 10th, 2012 14:56

FIDESZ is not an "extreme right wing". They call themselves "conservative", but they are not.
They are a mixture of everything. Populism, conservativism, liberalism, very old-fashioned christian fundamentalism, but I think there is a strong communist attide underneath of all this.
They just want power, and want to keep it. Nothing else matters.

Alrik Fassbauer January 10th, 2012 15:40

This makes me think : The most unclear and varied the positions of a party are - the less their believe in a philosophy ?

Or … to put it into other words : Parties with strong philosophies are at least reliable. They might be corrupt, but at least one knows what he(/she is voting for … Exept when within this party there is a *shift* towards corruption …

But populist parties … They don't seem to care. The question is : Did they give themselves these agendas because they want to have them for the public - or did they give themselves these agendas because they are a neat tool to become elected ?

I wonder.

Besides : Neo-Nazi parties are usually doing things so that they get the most costs from government back for their counseling meetings.
Here, all parties get costs which arise from counseling meetings back - but populist and Neo-Nazi parties apply for many, many, many, many more refunds than any other party - which shows that they are only after the money.

Berlusconi showed how it can work out : Use parties as a tool for self-enrichment …

zakhal January 10th, 2012 15:53

My friend from slovenia complained that he had only bad choiches in elections. It was either the ex-communist-mafia or some church-party. Ex-communist-mafia won. Corruption is everywhere.

How can democracy work if the only thing you can vote for is which bad guy you want to elect into power?

Alrik Fassbauer January 10th, 2012 16:06

Yes. This is a problem modern democracies hve never thought o when establishing themselves.

Modern democracies just do not have any ontrol functions againt that.

And in some countries it might be already too late : Politicians are not likely to give away power …

The only thing I can think of is : Create a new party. And hope that the "big ones" won't suppress you.

Corruption is like cancer. It has always been there. It is even in our DNA.

zakhal January 10th, 2012 16:10

Even if you build a new party there is a good chance that with time it will too become corrupt just like the old parties. Problem is not with the parties but with the system itself that corrupts them.

Alrik Fassbauer January 10th, 2012 16:14

Yes, but there is the possible to build new parties over time.

Our bodies work in a similar fashion : All of the time there are produced new cells.
They replace old ones.

zahratustra January 10th, 2012 18:56

Permanent revolution Alrik? :)

Kz3r0 January 11th, 2012 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061119227)
Hello, everyone,

I'm very much concerned about what's currently going on in Hungary.

It resembles a bit how Berluconi came into power, but this time things are much, much worse, because elected right-wing populists are exeedingly distrting the whole constitution of the country !

Mr. Orban is eroding Hungary's democracy in a similar manner like Berlusconi did - but with more concerning goals : He tries to install his party of Fidesz as an (if possible) neverending source of power (similar to what Berlusconi did), which includes drawing lines of election areas so that his party gets more votes than ever, installing party members and even his wife into central key positions, limiting what's the press is allowed to write about (in a similar manner to late laws of Berlusconi) - and the worst of it all is . He dances with right-wing extremists !

These are articles I picked out of the net which write about it :
General view I : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117
General view II : http://www.spiegel.de/international/…805112,00.html (funny that they are only citing left-wing newspapers ???)
View on recent economical decisions : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…racy-hungary-0
Blog entry : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…hungary?page=7

I would not want to live there anymore.

Alrik

You would have more credibility if you didn't cite Berlusconi.

zahratustra January 11th, 2012 03:07

Eh? Care to explain?

Kz3r0 January 11th, 2012 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahratustra (Post 1061120452)
Eh? Care to explain?

When Berlusconi started to gut the Italian constitution?
What steps he has ever taken to secure his party in power?
When someone claims that a situation is bad should make an apt comparison, if not, it looks like he is just screaming wolf for no good reason.

zahratustra January 11th, 2012 04:25

Alrik has to explain just what he meant himself but I agree with you. I would not compare Orban to Berlusconi on constitutional grounds. However, I do consider him guilty of corruption and of passing laws designed solely to cover his corrupt arse.

bloodlover January 11th, 2012 14:11

installing party members and even his wife into central key positions…

Dude, we've been dealing with shit like this in Romania ever since the communist regime went down in 1989.


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