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-   -   US PC Gamer - Skyrim #2 Game of All Time (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16063)

Thrasher January 27th, 2012 00:16

US PC Gamer - Skyrim #2 Game of All Time
 
wtf? :/

and no mention of the Gothics or Starcraft (original) or Fallout 1/2 or XCOM or Baldur's Gate 1/2…

Yet both of the Mass Effects make the top 100.

sigh… maybe it is time to save some money and stop the corporate welfare err subscription ….

Arcanum and Torment appearances are somewhat assuaging…

Fnord January 27th, 2012 00:20

It feels like way too early to put Skyrim on the list. While Skyrim was a great game, the mark of an outstanding game is its lasting appeal, years after it was first made.

dteowner January 27th, 2012 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord (Post 1061123617)
It feels like way too early to put Skyrim on the list. While Skyrim was a great game, the mark of an outstanding game is its lasting appeal, years after it was first made.

Haven't played Skyrim so I won't speak to its quality or lack thereof, but I wholeheartedly agree with this.

What got first place? WoW?

Thrasher January 27th, 2012 01:37

Do you really want to know? ;)

Spoiler – Not Pretty

dteowner January 27th, 2012 01:55

I don't remember that being wildly popular when it was released, let alone being greatest evah.

I could see WoW, maybe. Sure, we make fun of it, but it probably did more to bring computer gaming to the masses than anything before or since and the media loves them some Blizzard. Maybe Doom for "inventing" the fps genre. BG for saving the rpg genre. Realistically, Tetris and Bejeweled would have to rank highly for their impact, popularity, and longevity. Civilization.

I understand that lists like this have to be somehow controversial to generate interest and thus sales, but there's a difference between "controversial" and "f-in' stupid".

Thrasher January 27th, 2012 01:58

Yep, I have this need to point out the blatantly stupid. It just annoys me to death.

CountChocula January 27th, 2012 05:11

can someone provide a link?

I guess this must be an older article because it's not on the first few pages of posts on the site.

EDIT: or is it a print article?

Thrasher January 27th, 2012 06:44

Yeah, it's a print article. But there is an online version of the magazine.

Here is a link to it, but not sure if it will work for you. I hope I am not violating copyright laws. There is no warning on the page…

http://www.pcgamer-magazine.com/pcga…pm=2&u1=friend

crpgnut January 27th, 2012 18:09

This list judges by what criteria? Advertising purchases? I loves me some Skyrim, but 2nd all time?

Gorath January 27th, 2012 19:37

Advertising purchases is the #1 criterion in commercial media. ;)

Zloth February 5th, 2012 23:41

Basically, it's a list of the top 100 games that the editors would recommend right now. It's NOT a list of the top 100 games for their time. You've also got to remember that there are only five of these guys and they aren't exactly the oldest guys in gaming.

Still, there are some odd things. Planescape and Arcanum got on the list but Baldur's Gate didn't?

The only two game adverstisements in the entire magazine were for World of Tanks (didn't make the list) and Jagged Alliance: Back in Action (Jagged Alliance 2 got number 69). The vast majority of their adverts are for hardware sales.

Ashbery76 February 6th, 2012 00:50

We only go forward.Skyrim is better than Arcanum and Torment in the gameplay stakes.

xSamhainx February 7th, 2012 05:19

Skyrim is far too young to be in that slot.

ToddMcF2002 February 7th, 2012 06:54

As much as I love Skyrim, I don't get why people think it is fundamentally different than Oblivion. Scaling is less blatant and the world is more interesting, but that is simply evolutionary from Oblivion. And yet Oblivion is scorned by most…

skavenhorde February 7th, 2012 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 (Post 1061125775)
As much as I love Skyrim, I don't get why people think it is fundamentally different than Oblivion. Scaling is less blatant and the world is more interesting, but that is simply evolutionary from Oblivion. And yet Oblivion is scorned by most…

You do realize that scaling is a big reason to hate a game? It's the only reason I need to hate Oblivion.

Less blatant scaling = fun
blatant scaling = boring

JonNik February 7th, 2012 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrasher (Post 1061123649)
Do you really want to know? ;)

Spoiler – Not Pretty

Ye gods! I liked the game (although #2 that I got for 6 euros on the Christmas sale is significantly better imo). Clever, entertaining, they both needed to be a lot more challenging (may have lost their broad appeal though) but seriously…

Wtf? Why are we even wasting time on those lists!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 (Post 1061125775)
As much as I love Skyrim, I don't get why people think it is fundamentally different than Oblivion. Scaling is less blatant and the world is more interesting, but that is simply evolutionary from Oblivion. And yet Oblivion is scorned by most…

I somewhat agree with that. And yet I managed to put about 35 hours in Oblivion and finishing it felt like a chore, while 120 probably represent only my first go through Skyrim…

Is it a mystery? not really. There are a couple of factors to consider here (Note that I am speaking in how I perceive why I feel so different about the two games):

1) The psychological: Oblivion followed Morrowind and based on expectations created by that game the blatant scaling, over streamlining of several elements and generic fantasy blandness of the world (and art direction) shocked a lot of people. Also the backlash created by the unbelievably positive initial reviews and the trend that followed it (bash Oblivion, you can!) probably have something to do… Its different with Skyrim, it only had to improve in several key factors in regards to its derided predecessor and it did! Also most of us had already made peace with the fact that a deep and meaningful RPG (either in writing or mechanics) is not something that Bethesda is interested in producing anymore which brings us to number:

2) Practically speaking Oblivion kinda sucked for the kind of game that Bethesda is trying to make (a huge, interesting, immersive open world that sustains the illusion of life enough to keep you playing, ignoring the repetitiveness of its content). It did so because the world was boring, flat, I've seen it all a hundred times, and the in your face scaling and blatantly cookie cutter reused content was so obvious that it destroyed the suspension of disbelief in mere hours. Why would I want to keep playing in that world if it felt so stilted and dead? wasn't for the RPG or the content…

In the end it comes down to an individual's levels of tolerance. In Skyrim the important elements for this kind of game (interesting world and location design and layout, art direction and all the little enviromental touches in the cities and the wild that promote atmosphere and immersion) were very significantly improved.While the worst offenders that made the predecessor less interesting were alleviated in a sufficient degree that they don't break immersion and make the gameplay much more engaging and fun. So as this specific type of game Skyrim succeeds were Oblivion failed, imo.

It goes without saying that all the improvements would not hit other people's requirements or priorities or it is fundamentally a different kind of game they like. Those will of course hate S as much as O and should already be aware that they need to look elsewhere for their RPG experience…

Wow that was wordy :biggrin: apologies…

P.S yeah lets do the game of all time discussion in a decade or so shall we. Much as I like it though I cannot see it entering my top ten then too…

JonNik February 7th, 2012 09:29

Or instead of writing that wall of text I could have read through the thread and done this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by skavenhorde (Post 1061125777)
You do realize that scaling is a big reason to hate a game? It's the only reason I need to hate Oblivion.

Less blatant scaling = fun
blatant scaling = boring

this.

:biggrin:

DArtagnan February 7th, 2012 11:58

Skyrim is not "fundamentally" different than Oblivion, it's just executed with far more care.

Oblivion FELT like a randomly generated world, where as Skyrim feels a lot more handcrafted.

Character development is infinitely more interesting with perks, and natural in terms of how you level up. You don't have to "game" the system to optimise.

The presentation is much better, especially when interacting with NPCs. They don't "feel" like strange robotic clones - and the world doesn't "pause" when you interact. They tend to deliver a performance that corresponds to what's going on - rather than the strange "recording room" stuff in Oblivion/Fallout 3.

Animations are much better as well, which was always a weak part of Bethesda games. Third person mode is fully playable and pleasant now.

The amount of unique content is staggering.

Stealth/archery is better than any other RPG out there.

I prefer the new approach to magic (unique spells) - but I don't think anyone can argue that it doesn't look much better. Morrowind and Oblivion had some really boring/dreary visual effects for magic. Skyrim is fantastic in comparison.

Voice acting is better and much more varied.

The dragon shouts are cool toys - and the dragons themselves are definitely the best implementation of that creature in any computer game. Not perfect (too easy in vanilla) - but pretty damn impressive.

Writing is more consistent and (in my opinion) much better. They've toned down the "insane" humor and silly stuff a lot - which I think was a very good decision. I wouldn't call it "great" - but it's certainly good writing considering the norm.

They introduced crafting, which is a big deal in huge open world RPGs like this. I don't think they did it particularly well - but it's much better than nothing.

It might seem minor, but I think the combat music is truly fantastic - and really helps to set the mood and get the adrenaline going. Some of the exploration music is also really well done.

The most visually immersive RPG I know of. The game is just beautiful. The Witcher 2 was somewhat better looking, but it didn't feel "big" and I couldn't quite immerse myself - given the lack of a first person perspective.

The level scaling is less blatant and pervasive. It's still there (and I will always hate it) - but you do get to experience the progression in power to a greater extent.

—-

I could go on.

Skyrim is just better in every important way. It's the game I wanted Oblivion and Morrowind to be.

It's the best game I've ever played.

ToddMcF2002 February 8th, 2012 00:30

I'm playing Oblivion now and concentrating on guild quests. Coupled with the graphics improvements (Qarls + shaded extenders) I'm finding the Vanilla experience pretty similar. Perhaps because I'm playing a heavy armor battle Mage I'm not bothered by the scaling since my misc skills are being developed and as a consequence I'm leveling slowly. I've also found quite a few high level constant effect items in some remote locations, which surprised me a bit. Maybe the universal bashing over the years has created some selective memories?

wolfgrimdark February 8th, 2012 01:14

I played both and it was pretty much scaling that wrecked Oblivion for me for a variety of issues (sense of progression, bandits in glass armor, etc.)

I prefer the graphics in Skyrim as well as the more hand-crafted feel. But Dart pretty much summed up a lot of it.


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