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-   -   Mass Effect 3 - The Indoctrination Theory (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16624)

Dhruin March 20th, 2012 23:13

Mass Effect 3 - The Indoctrination Theory
 
Yes, those Mass Effect 3 endings just won't go away. RPGFool sends this article in from Game Front, who examine The Indoctrination Theory. I haven't read it (spoilers, obviously) but here's an introductory snip:
Quote:

The fervor over Mass Effect 3‘s endings continues to roil throughout the game’s expansive community. Our analysis of why many fans hate the ending of the game — and why they’re right — has kicked up a big discussion. Many of you agreed with our analysis, while several have explained a lot of the problems by pointing to an idea known as the “Indoctrination Theory.” Ross Lincoln and I have devoted considerable brain space to this explanation of the game’s controversial ending, as well as the possibilities of the Indoctrination Theory, and we’ve come to a thrilling conclusion: Maybe.
While we're on the subject, Jay Barnson wonders if gamers have too high a sense of entitlement:
Quote:

Okay. You know what? I hated the ending of Fallout 3. It’s especially stupid when you have a super-orc or robot companion that should offer an easy alternative to a ‘terrible decision’ you are supposed to make. I guess there’s some DLC for it that kinda retcons it a little bit, but after completing the game and getting that ending I simply felt like I was “done” and had no more interest in playing further (or buying DLC). I had a blast playing up until that point. But then I voted with my wallet.
More information.

Alrik Fassbauer March 20th, 2012 23:13

Now that's interesting (spoilers ahead) ! :

Spoiler


Edit : Also interesting :

Spoiler

jhwisner March 21st, 2012 01:18

@Alrik Fassbauer

Spoiler

Couchpotato March 21st, 2012 03:49

If the theory is true and Bioware uses it for dlc. That would make them the biggest troll on the internet. Hell I would love to see the backlash.

azarhal March 21st, 2012 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061133889)
If the theory is true and Bioware uses it for dlc. That would make them the biggest troll on the internet. Hell I would love to see the backlash.

Backlash? Why? People are requesting a "new" ending right now and 73% of them are ready to pay for it according to some poll have seen…

Also, it wouldn't be the first a game expand its ending with an expansion/DLC (NWN2, Divine Divinity 2, Fallout 3 to name a few).

Also, the theory was true at some point. The the Final Hour have dev written doc that shows the idea was in the card.

RPGFool March 21st, 2012 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061133889)
If the theory is true and Bioware uses it for dlc. That would make them the biggest troll on the internet. Hell I would love to see the backlash.

Maybe the BW devs will say, "OMG! WE were indoctrinated (by executives at an unnamed parent corporation)! Not out fault!" ;)

Actually
Spoiler – Spoiler


__

zahratustra March 21st, 2012 05:28

Two points:
1- wouldn't be surprised if Bioware would claim now that "indoctrination" was what they cunningly had up their sleeve all along. "Cunning" sounds so much better than "thrown into the defense"…

2- if there was any truth in "indoctrination theory" what would be the point of releasing statements like: "actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration…" and "collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."?
IF "indoctrination" was THE plan why not keep schtum and than hit people over the head with DLC?

Couchpotato March 21st, 2012 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061133893)
Backlash? Why? People are requesting a "new" ending right now and 73% of them are ready to pay for it according to some poll have seen…

If they fix it or sell the ending as dlc it will backfire and create more problems. There not in a winning position no matter what they do. Please one side and piss off another. Sometimes I wonder is it really worth it to make games.

Quote:

Also, it wouldn't be the first a game expand its ending with an expansion/DLC (NWN2, Divine Divinity 2, Fallout 3 to name a few).
At least those games had closure and endings you knew it was the end and it was explained. ME3 explains nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahratustra (Post 1061133896)
2- if there was any truth in "indoctrination theory" what would be the point of releasing statements like: "actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration…" and "collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."?
IF "indoctrination" was THE plan why not keep schtum and than hit people over the head with DLC?

Indoctrination was the plan they couldn't incorporate the concept with the engine limitations. It was cut.

azarhal March 21st, 2012 06:10

1- BioWare ending idea from last November can be found in the Final Hour app (discussed here on BSN). I suggest you check it.

2- They did the same thing for DA2 and they didn't change the main game after receiving them. The DLCs were improved thought.

Raggie March 21st, 2012 07:42

My experience with the ME universe is limited to one playthrough of ME1, so I have no personal opinion on the ME3 ending. However, if the majority of people who finish ME3 are feeling dissatisfied, I think it's safe to say the ending was a failure.

If BW has indeed planned all this and the whole thing was a hoax, I personally wouldn't call it clever or awesome. I'd call it a rat move.

azarhal March 21st, 2012 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raggie (Post 1061133907)
However, if the majority of people who finish ME3 are feeling dissatisfied, I think it's safe to say the ending was a failure.

Once you start to check the official forum you realize people hate the ending, because they didn't have their spoon feed happy ever after with their pixilated girl/boyfriend.

The worst part, these people are incapable of making their own "happy ever after" now, despite there being place to do so.

Couchpotato March 21st, 2012 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061133910)
Once you start to check the official forum you realize people hate the ending, because they didn't have their spoon feed happy ever after with their pixilated girl/boyfriend.

The worst part, these people are incapable of making their own "happy ever after" now, despite there being place to do so.

There seems to be two sides who cant understand why either feels the way they do. There is no compromise or civil discussion anymore its pitiful. As I always say welcome to the internet were no one cares about your opinion.

Raggie March 21st, 2012 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061133910)
Once you start to check the official forum you realize people hate the ending, because they didn't have their spoon feed happy ever after with their pixilated girl/boyfriend.

I guess we have been reading the different posts then. I don't really see so many people talking about the romance endings. I think most people are just very invested in their Shephards, which I don't find very surprising after 3 games. A lot of people are complaining how the "several endings" turned out to be a choice between sad, depressing and miserable. The results of this poll don't indicate the majority wants "lollipops and rainbows": http://social.bioware.com/396053/polls/30166/

I might like the endings myself, I've always liked bittersweet/vague endings nobody else seems to like. But regardless of my personal opinion, if the overall range of opinions seems to be between "meh" and "terrible" and people are leaving a piece of entertainment feeling depressed, something went wrong.

BTW, I've been reading this thread about Bioware's damage control: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to…index/10084349
Just think the whole situation is interesting. I've never seen a response like this to a game before.

basharran March 21st, 2012 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raggie (Post 1061133916)
I guess we have been reading the different posts then. I don't really see so many people talking about the romance endings. I think most people are just very invested in their Shephards, which I don't find very surprising after 3 games. A lot of people are complaining how the "several endings" turned out to be a choice between sad, depressing and miserable. The results of this poll don't indicate the majority wants "lollipops and rainbows": http://social.bioware.com/396053/polls/30166/

I might like the endings myself, I've always liked bittersweet/vague endings nobody else seems to like. But regardless of my personal opinion, if the overall range of opinions seems to be between "meh" and "terrible" and people are leaving a piece of entertainment feeling depressed, something went wrong.

BTW, I've been reading this thread about Bioware's damage control: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to…index/10084349
Just think the whole situation is interesting. I've never seen a response like this to a game before.

Like I said before people can't cope with non-Hollywood endings and not so happy ever after. But taken into consideration what is happening during these 3 games it might be the best end to a game series to date. But as pointed out above BW will probably give in to the masses and effect another ending to the series. I just hope they keep the original ending in as well since I think it makes perfect sense.

Raggie March 21st, 2012 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061133915)
As I always say welcome to the internet were no one cares about your opinion.

This, or maybe: "..where everyone tries to dictate everyone else's opinion".

Think and feel like I do, otherwise you're an idiot…

Edit: now the whole thing has spread to non-gaming media, which is pretty unprecedented. This morning I picked up Metro (which never carries any gaming news, ever) and they had a short piece on the fan reaction. I hear even BBC and Forbes carry the news. Pretty amazing.

fungus March 21st, 2012 11:31

@Alrik Fassbauer
Spoiler

Nevarion March 21st, 2012 11:52

I agree with Raggie.

To me, it is most interesting to read the arguments, see what happens next and so on. Quality reading to be found with sophisticated analyses/opinions.

Making generalizations doesn't help at all tho.

LostWelshman March 21st, 2012 14:24

ditto, that was a good read.
since it was announced it's been heralded as the end of the shepard story and as repeated in the article the devs have been saying 'keep your saves', so whatever arrives i just hope it doesn't gloss over with a 'and they all lived happily ever after'. I quite like the fact that currently it ends in…
Spoiler – ending
(although, not quite so many questions would have been nice)

Thaurin March 21st, 2012 15:38

I have NO idea what the ending is and if I'm right (which would be awesome), I wouldn't want anybody to go, "Yeah, that's it. You're right!" because of spoilers, etc. but I was thinking, half-seriously, some time back about what the ending might be. Wouldn't it be awesome if it all turned out to be a big computer simulation about what would happen if man, having discovered amazing Prothean technology on Mars and on the brink of interstellar space travel, made first alien contact. Having concluded that it would all eventually end in tears, First Contact War, Protheans, etc. it is then decided to blow up the ancient Prothean site and never look beyond our own star system again. The end. Credits roll. And then after that, our solar system blows up for no adequately explored reason.

10/10! I'd love to see the DLC for that! Alternate ending DLC?

Ashindai March 21st, 2012 17:00

Interesting letter from Dr. Ray Muzyka regarding the ME3 ending and new content.

Of interest:
Quote:

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.


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