Need help to build good, quiet, gaming system
 

Hi folks, yes another plea for your input for building a new PC. My old one is now 7 years old and really deserves to get a rest…

I want to build a new box from scratch now. The specifics:
- Good, mid/high end gaming system
- As quiet as I can make it, given the above. My current system sounds like a learjet, and I want something a lot quieter, without having unreasonable expectations.
- Other uses: Photo and video editing. Some purely hobby-level home recording (another reason why it should be moderately quiet), some home office stuff, etc.

Starting out from the links Gorathe gave in Badgers thread,(http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/prax…au_pcs_p4.html) swapping around some components etc., I put together the following at PCP.ch (prices in swiss franks):

MoBo: Asrock Z68 Pro3 Gen3 109,-
CPU: Intel Core i5 2500K 228,-
Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Advanced C1 72,-
GPU: Asus ENGTX560 Ti DCII TOP/2DI/1GD5 278,-
SSD: Kingston HyperX SSD Drive 120GB 149,-
HD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 - SATA - 1TB - 7200rpm 112,-
Optical Drive: Use old 0,-
Keyboard: Use old Logitech 0,-
Sound: Creative X-Fi Titanium 101,-
RAM: Kingston HyperX 8,0 GByte Kit DDR3-1600 59,-
PSU: Cooler Master SilentPro M700 132,-
Case: NZXT Phantom - gedämmt - weiss 234,-
Monitor: BenQ G2450HM (1920x1080, 2ms, 50000:1)) 189,-
System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit - SP1 - DE *(B) 105,-
Mouse: Logitech Gaming Mouse G500 60,-

Total: 1828,-

OK, you are welcome to just comment the above in general. But I also have some specific questions:

The Asrock is from Gorath's link, but I am irritated because it seems it has onboard Gfx. Isn't that a waste? Any other recommendations here?

The GPU. From the pricepoint it seems I am looking at a GFX 560 / 560TI as a logical choice, but I have no idea how to identify a relatively quiet card among the many choices. The Asus at least mentioned "quiet cooler" in the description, but if anybody can point out a decent relatively quiet card that would be suitable (above or below the 560 is fine, as long as it can run the native resolution of the monitor for current games), please let me know.

I chose a relatively expensive case (also from Goraths link) that seems to have good soundproofing capability. Any opions?

RAID - is it worth looking into, if I already go for the SSD?

I'm within budget, but I also wouldn't mind lowering the price to ca. 1500,- if it can be done without big losses. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any input!

The problem with an isolated case is that it keeps the heat inside.

If all components are silent you don't need a special case. A cheap one will do.

You can only identify silent graphics cards by reading reviews.

Sure, it's always a compromise. The case seems to allow to add additional sound proofing in various places in a modular way, so it should help in finding such a compromise. I don't think with a gaming PC the components will be quiet enough that a cheap case without any isolation will get me what I want.

No, it's the CPU that has integrated graphics :) . Remember that all modern i5/i7 CPUs come with Intel HD graphics built in. That's why nearly all modern boards with a P67/Z68/Z77 chipset carry the corresponding back I/O ports (usually HDMI and/or DVI).
If I were you I think I'd go for a Z77 mainboard for a new system since Z77 is all new and Z68 is fading out.
My personal favorite has always been ASUS. Never had a problem with any of their boards. The ASUS P8Z77-V has everything on board that you should need (plus a few useless extras as usual nowadays ;) ).
You can stick with the Sandy Bridge i5-2500K or get a brand new Ivy Bridge i5-3570K. Doesn't really matter. The performance difference is +10% in favor of Ivy Bridge at the very most. In games there will not be a noticeable difference at all.

The ASUS DC are supposed to be really good and quiet so that would be a decent choice. Other good choices include: Gainward Phantom, Gigabyte WindForce or MSI TwinFrozr.
I personally favor Gainward and -thanks to a generous tax refund- just replaced my GTX 570 Phantom with a shiny new GTX 680 Phantom :) . Awesome card once again. The Phantom cooling works very well and is silent out of the box.

All of these cards can be made even more silent if you create your own fan profile in MSI Afterburner (there are other apps to achieve the same I believe but I haven't tried anything else but MSI AB).
It takes just a few mouse clicks to create a profile so e.g. you can tell your fan to stay at 30% fan speed (usually the lowest setting) all the way until the card reaches 70°C, then you allow it to speed up to 35% until it reaches 80°C, then 40% when it gets to 85°C and finally 45% at 90°C and if it goes beyond that you just allow it to go wild. Those are just example settings but it should give you a general idea of what can be done.
Of course, with cooling on the level of ASUS DC/Phantom/TwinFrozr/WindForce you'll never get to 90°C in the first place. You'll most likely linger around ~70°C - 75°C under heavy load with a 560Ti at normal room temperature so the fan will always rotate at the lowest speeds if you tell it to via a profile.
The default fan control of most cards is way too aggressive. They'll speed up to 50% when the card temp is still relatively low which is completely unnecessary. Anything sub 90°C is more than fine so there is no need for aggressive cooling below that. A gentle increase in fan speeds will keep the temps in check.

In a word: No. The garbage collection or TRIM function does usually not work in RAID so unless there is a very special and specific reason to run your SSDs in a RAID it's just not a good idea to go for SSD RAID.

Well, the case is pretty expensive because it is a case that comes with preinstalled noise insulation. Not totally necessary if the components are already silent. So you could go for a cheaper case (like Coolermaster HAF which I can recommend from personal experience) and if against all expectations the noise does still pose an issue then you could buy dampening material and just insulate the case do-it-yourself style.
Also do you really need a new screen and a mouse? Note that the listing contains a LCD and a mouse.
You could also scratch the sound card and buy that later if the onboard audio bothers you. Thanks to the sound implementation in DirectSound since Vista it doesn't really matter all that much anymore what DSP you're using for games so you don't really need a Creative sound card.

Other than that I'd like to suggest two alternative components just so you have something else to consider, not because the options in the listing are inferior.
1) For the CPU heatsink I'd recommend to check out Thermalright's lineup. They got excellent silent coolers which are kinda huge though so the case needs to be big enough. The nice thing is you can usually choose the fan you want to pair with the heatsink so it's ultimately up to you how silent the system is or how good the cooling is. The bequiet! DarkRock does come with preinstalled fans that can not be so easily removed (at least the one in the middle, right?). This could pose an issue if the fan is not as silent as you would like it to be.
2) As for the power supply, I've always been a very happy camper with Thermaltake (the Toughpower Grand line). Reliable. Silent (thanks to a big 140mm fan). Good modular cabling. Those are the keywords for Toughpower Grand.

For that money I'd get an Alienware M17x with a 7970M. $1899 delivered.

Delivered to CH and and including VAT?

Hmmmm… Perhaps not.

Thanks all, especially Moriendor for the extensive reply. Huh, didn't know about the CPU-integrated graphics- goes to show how little I have followed the development in the past 7 years. I'll try and read up on the components you named, and going for the newer chipset sounds reasonable.
My old monitor(s) are just that. Old, scratched, VGA, 3:4, and low native resolution. It would be a shame to not get a decent monitor with a system like this. I might scartch the mouse and sound though - the soundcard is mainly with the idea to do some home recording, but maybe that can wait. For gaming I use headphones anyway and I am no sound junky.
I'll think about the case - although I must say that i really like it, so maybe I'll end up going with it anyway. But it is probably a big saving opportunity.

True that. The monitor is the most important human interface component so getting a good one is definitely a top priority :) .
I just got a new one a few weeks ago, too. After doing some research I went for the Dell UltraSharp U2412M.
Reasons: I wanted a 24" 16:10 display instead of the more squeezed 16:9. The Dell has LED backlight and it has an eIPS panel which is superior in image quality and especially color accuracy to a TN panel. The price of ~€250 for a display of this caliber is very fair so I gave it a shot and have been very happy with my purchase. It's not worlds apart from the Samsung TN display I had before but it's a nice upgrade for sure. It's also completely gaming compatible so no worries about any kind of lag on that end.
If you must have a BenQ or a 3D-compatible 120Hz LCD then you should check out the BenQ XL2420T which is the best of its class as far as I have heard.

And since you speak German (Swiss eh?) here's the link to the best German review site for displays: Prad.de. You can find a review of the BenQ here and a review of the Dell here. And many other reviews of great and not so great displays, of course :) .

www.silentpcreview.com has always been the go to place for quiet computing.
PSU wise they rave about Seasonic a lot. PSU can be very noisy if you are not careful.
I run an ATI 6870 MSI hawk with afterburner to control fan speed and its quiet. Case wise the thicker / more rigid the better so it doesn't resonate. My Antec P180 has layered sides and the PSU in a bottom "tunnel". Also 120mm Nexus fans for case cooling running slowly.
Also IPS panels are amazing.

Moriendor beat me to it; get a good 16:10 monitor. I bought a 16:9 this last go-around since it was (and still is) tough to find a good 16:10, and I regret it.

Noise-wise, your two main culprits are the CPU and GPU fans (if water cooling is out of the question). Get a wide case that can hold a 120mm cpu fan/heatsink; larger fan=low rpm=low noise. Getting a low-noise GPU, on the other hand, is a trickier matter; best to read reviews for the specific make/model of the card you're interested in. Silent PC can be good at times.

This SSD just came on sale, if you're interested: Samsung 830 256gb for $290. Posting it here because I had been watching it on Newegg and thought of this thread when I got the price alert. It's one of the most reliable SSDs you can buy. After experiencing a month of headaches with a Corsair Sandforce SSD, I'll never deal with that controller type again.

Agree with the Samsung 830 recommendation. When I last upgraded my SSD the Samsung 830 was not out yet (Samsung only offered the older 470 model which was by far not as good as the 830 is now).
So I went with Crucial m4 256GB which has been very reliable and well performing for me. If I had to buy a SSD now I'd look at them in this order: 1) Samsung 830 2) Crucial m4 3) Intel 520 (which is SandForce but supposedly very reliable due to Intel's custom firmware and validation… otherwise I'd stay far away from SandForce as well, and especially OCZ drives)

There's currently a $20 off promo on the above drive (Samsung 830 256gb). EMCNENJ49 - Brings it down to $270.

Awesome price!

Thanks so much for all the feedback. I am resuming research and reading up on your recommendations. May I ask why you consider 16:10 preferrable, when it seems a rather unusual aspect ratio? I'll try to find some, unfortunately PCP does not have a filter for the aspect ratio (or is 1920x1200 the same thing?).

The Dell Ultra Sharp is available here (there is actually a returned one for just 300 CHF) but it says it has 8ms reaction time - I thought that was considered a bit sluggish for gaming - or is that not so important?
Is BenQ an OK company? I picked the one in my list because it fulfilled my criteria (24', 2 ms reaction time, and low energy consumption) and was relatively cheap, but I have no preferences. 3D? Hmm so you need a special monitor there? That's something to consider, maybe. The BenQ you recommended (XL2420T) is really expensive though, CHF 470,-!

I'm surprised there seem to be such differences in quality and technologies in the SSDs - I guess I'll go back to the Samsung I had originally in my list, then, it wasn't that much more expensive. I won't be able to get anything off of Newegg (I'm based in Switzerland as Moriendor noted correctly - although I am not myself Swiss).
Edit: Ther Kingston HyperX I picked becasue they have it on sale for 100,- less - its SandForce SF-2281 - not recommendable?

120 more vertical pixels = more screen real estate :) . You can also put two A4 pages next to each other in full screen w/o vertical scrolling. It's more comfortable to do work on a 16:10 screen.

I'll just quote from the Prad.de review I linked to above. I can confirm what they have said from my experience though if you play something really fast like Quake in tournaments then you might maybe want to consider a faster screen. Here's the quote:…
…
…BenQ is OK in my opinion. I used to have a 19" LCD of them a few years back and it did its job reliably. You do need a 120Hz screen for 3D because the alternating image needs to be rendered at 60Hz for each eye (or the "eyes" of the 3D glasses rather). The XL2420 is supposed to be the best of its class, i.e. the best 3D compatible 120Hz monitor. BenQ knows they have a winner on their hands and that's why it's pretty expensive. Well, all 120Hz LCDs are a bit expensive still because 3D is a special domain. It will take time before the prices come down.


I wouldn't take my chances on a SandForce-based drive of this generation. I have read the OCZ and Corsair forums when the SF-2281 were still fairly new and there were heaps of people who had blue screen issues (BSOD). SandForce released two or three new firmwares in short order but without being able to fix the issue for good. That's what scared me the most. They totally poked around in the dark and seemed to have no clue at all where to even begin searching for the issue. Heck, SandForce actually asked people with BSODs to ship their entire system to them so they could test the user's system!

I don't know about anyone else but I will gladly trade a few points in a synthetic benchmark for more reliability. It's the hard drive after all. My data is holy ;) . I'm not going to make any crappy compromises when it comes to reliability. The real world performance of SSDs is all the same anyway. It doesn't matter if you have SandForce, Marvell (Crucial, Plextor, Intel 510 etc.) or a Samsung controller so one might as well just go for the most reliable option.

I cannot stand the noise either! Over a period of years I've almost become obsessive about it. But I just cannot stand the noise.

But I have finally managed to build a quiet, but well ventilated computer.

The noise basically comes from the fans. But a computer needs fans. Or the parts in the computer will die an early death (CPU, GPU, Power Supply, Hard Drives, and motherboard).

Temperature is a killer. Throughout industries of numerous types, manufacturers subject products to simulated extended aging testing because you can't test a product to 10 years of use to verify a 10 year lifetime. The primary rule in extended aging testing is test product at increased temperature. Every 10 degrees Celsius temp increase is the same as doubling the testing period time (because of rule of chemical thermodynamics that increasing reaction temp by 10 degrees C will double the reaction rate).

Which is to say, every temperature increase of 10 degrees C within your computer case will essentially cut the lifetime of everything in the case by 50%. So you've got to have fans.

So, I finally found fans that are incredibly quiet and move lots of air. I've got 6 fans on and in my computer (5 X 120 mm fans, and 1 X 140 mm fan) and there is almost no noise.

The quiet fans are Cougar Vortex Fans. They're not cheap, but you can get pretty good deals on them at NewEgg if you wait for some sort of sale.

The Cougar fans have three great things going for them: first, they use a "hydro-dynamic-bearing". It is illustrated on the link page above. Basically there is no solid-to-solid contact between rotating parts in the fan motor. You have a cylinder within a sleeve, and a sealed layer of oil between cylinder and the sleeve.

Second, the Cougar fans have specially shaped and surface textured fan blades that greatly decrease noise from air moving across the blades.

Third, and this is really important, the Cougar fans come with special rubber mounting pins (to replace the metal screws). The fans ship with both the screws and the rubber pins, but mounting with the rubber pins decreases the noise to almost nothing.

Here's a link that shows what these rubber fan pins look like. It's a little hard to figure out how they work. But basically you pull the pins through the four fan holes, from inside to outside, so that the fan exterior ends up with the long stems of four rubber pins extending outwardly from the mounting surface. Then you guide the the pins through the computer case mounting holes; pull each stem through the mounting hole so that a wide rubber bump on the stem is pulled through the mounting hole; and that holds the fan. The fan surface doesn't touch the computer case surface; and there's a small portion of the rubber pin between the two surfaces. All fan vibrations are thereby isolated from the computer case.

For CPU cooling I used a COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO, that I modified by replacing the Cooler Master fan with a Cougar fan (and I added a second Cougar fan, to give better push-pull cooling). This thing cools basically as well as water cooling with no noise.

Two of my fans are not Cougar fans. They came with the case (a Rosewill Case with lots of fan mount and ventilation areas). In order to make the two fans perform quietly, I replaced the metal fan screws with rubber mounting pins.

I cannot over-emphasize that fan noise drives me crazy! Over the years, I've tried all sorts of stuff including lining the entire computer case with a cork liner (it didn't do much except make a big mess and increase heat within the case). But although I have a hard time living with the fans, I also had to recognize that the computer can't live for long without them. The above gave me the quiet solution I have sought basically forever. Hope this helps.

Just to add to the above: my motherboard is Asus Sabertooth 990FX. CPU is AMD Quad core, Phenom II 955 (overclocked from 3.2 to 3.85 GHz with great options on Asus motherboard, and with very little heat increase thanks to Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo). 8 Gigs of G.Skill Ram; 2 X 1.5 Terabyte Western Digital fast transfer rate SATA Hard Drives (they're very fast particularly with fast SATA controllers on motherboard); NVidia GEFORCE GTX 460 Display adapter with 1 GB of fast ram; and an LG DVD Rom Drive.

Power Supply: Antec 650 Watt (virtually no noise). Many power supplies are very loud as it turns out; but this one is quiet.

Total cost was under $1000 US Dollars. So far can run all games at max or almost max settings, with no problems, great frame rates.

__

The corsair self contained water coolers are what really quieted down my case noise. I highly recommend them, as they are very cheap and easy to install.

I hate fan noise as well. I solved it by water cooling and putting my computer in the closet. My desk butts up to the closet so I run an external cd Rom and cable through a faceplate in the wall. If you just come it the room you wouldn't even know there was a pc there if it weren't for the mouse and keyboard. Complete silence.:)