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6NOV: The Apocolypse Cometh
Regardless of who wins, roughly half the nation will be wailing about the end of days being nigh.
We needed a thread for election chatter. And I smiled broadly and spoketh, "Let there be thread!". For our first entry, I have a nicely snarky article about last night's debate. I was far more interested in DDO last night, to be honest, so I'll have to trust impressions of the lamestream media. Anyhoo, enjoy: http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-wo…t-matter-.html Quote:
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edit- I tested the link just for giggles and it puked. Don't see the difference, but this link appears to work: http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-wo…t-matter-.html |
The Euros are deeply disappointed by the debate. Looks like I should have watched it after all. ;)
http://news.yahoo.com/romneys-strong…150035684.html Quote:
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Haha on the flip flops comment. :)
I watched most of the debate, and got tired of it at the end. Mitt contradicted himself more than I've ever I seen in a campaign before, and Obama never called him out on it except for cutting taxes by $5M. The thing is if someone keeps changing their positions and say different things to different people, the campaign becomes nothing of substance, and just about appearance. Color me sickened (i.e. green)… |
Thrasher, I guess you will overlook your man's "green" investments that Romney referred to. I think the facts speak for themselves. Most of this money went right back to people who contributed to Obama's campaign. Shameful.
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I watched maybe 15 minutes of the debate. I truly loathe both of them. If only Ron Paul had had the speaking ability of either of these hucksters.
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@redman
Where did you get that data. From a completely unbiased source, I presume? What I read from others, it's only a few companies of the many that were funded that have failed. What's the truth? I certainly won't trust lists like this unless I verify them myself. |
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I certainty won't believe anything coming out of the Romney campaign nor the RNC nor Faux news. All have poor records on the truth. That's why I want the source quoted above.
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Thrasher, its easy. Type FAILED GREEN ENERGY VENTURES FUNDED BY OBAMA into your browsers amd click.
You won't find anything on liberal sites though. It's like none of it exists, unreal. Obama has been helping rich people get richer. Hypocrisy abounds. One "green company" that managed to survive did so by closing their plant in the US (after taking all that free money)while still keeping the other one overseas running. Half a billion dollars to Fisker. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-co…ry?id=14770875 |
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/green-…ry?id=15851653
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Fact-check: Half of fed-funded green companies bankrupt?
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The Financing Force Behind America’s Clean Energy Economy |
The whole Solyndra debacle (and the 38 studios one) do well to illustrate in which situations government investment in economic development is wholly unhelpful and perhaps rather unwise.
The short of it is that this sort of economic development put way too much towards the wrong kinds of ventures and was made with far too little insight. They're two of the absolute worst kinds of products to second guess the market and investors on, the potential secondary benefits that could justify such government spending were few compared to other possibilities, and the individual costs compared to other comparable projects in terms of economic development/job creation were very high. Long ass bit
Spoiler
Both Solyndra and 38 Studios are excellent examples of the kinds of things the government should be the least interested in spending money on. In terms of economic development they represented high risks and large single expenditures compared to other comparably stimulative investments. In terms of secondary benefits that the market is not well equipped to evaluate, they represented clearly inferior choices to projects such as fundamental research and infrastructure. I would hope examples like this highlight the need for independent oversight as well as strict rules governing conflict of interest and elligibility for any of these economic development programs. I would rather that second lesson learned from this is not that the government can't do things for the economy but instead that the government shouldn't second guess the kinds of determinations the market is especially good at making and recognize its roll in those things the market is particularly ill equipped to value. There's a reason that the government handles things like law enforcement while the market usually does a good job regulating the production levels of commodities. The principles that make the roles of each in those situations obvious should not be entirely ignored in other questions of governance and market economics. |
Prediction: Obama wins even though Romney gets more votes (thanks to some red states that are VERY red). Congress divides even more because of this and goes right over the "fiscal cliff". Apocalypse comes.
So yeah, I agree with DTE. ;) |
I hate how even when we have clear factual examples of mistakes with definite numbers attached to them that a politician could cite against their opponent, they still can't even do that honestly. Solyndra was a mistake and a pretty stupid one - as I imagine the other 2 bankrupt companies who received loans under these programs may also prove to be. Those failures are pretty damning without having to conflate the ammount spent on loan gaurantees to companies such as solyndra with the total for the far broader energy spending section of the stimulus. Nor is it nescessary to misrepresent loan guarantees as tax breaks.
Of the 90 billion in energy spending erroneously referred to as tax breaks for green energy and alternatively to money for green jobs, it actually broke down as follows: $29 billion for energy efficiency, including $5 billion for the weatherization of low-income homes; $10 billion to modernize the nation’s electric grid; $6 billion for domestic manufacturing of advanced batteries and other components of alternative vehicles and fuel technology; $18 billion for transit projects, including high-speed rail; $3 billion for researching and developing clean-coal technology; $3 billion for job training; $2 billion in manufacturing tax credits. $26 billion in loan guarantees securing private loans The loan guarantees (this is co-signing a loan not a direct loan from the government) were granted to 28 companies if we include loans approved from all 3 loan programs by the Obama administration. Of those 26 companies, 3 have failed - Solyndra, Beacon, and Abound Solar; the total loans they actually took out under government backing totalled $648 million. That is a loss of 4% of the total loans backed and an 11% failure rate for companies receiving backing. It is important to understand that this $648 million is also the total cost incurred thusfar by the loan program. These are gaurantees of private loans, not direct expenditures. Therefore this does not equate to 26 billion that could have been spent elsewhere - but rather a total stake of $26 for which at least some of it could have been risked far more wisely. The default rate is not anywhere near 50%, the ammount spent in this way is not nearly half of the $90 billion energy program with which the loans were conflated, the total was not spent on "green jobs," nor is much of this cost in the form of tax breaks. The wisdom in choosing how to spread this risk and best use those gaurantees is certainly questionable. I disagree with many of the loans made particularly since the total number of permanent jobs created by some of them are extremely small and the construction jobs are fewer than what supporting many smaller loans could have produced. Additionally I would expect the bankruptcy rate to climb as some of the remaining projects face similar challenges as Solyndra had - that they are manufacturing a commodity item without the benefit of near-slave labor enjoyed by some overseas manufacturers. The honest and accurate criticisms that could have been made in this matter are more complicated and sound less impressive than the ones made with conflated or outright dishonest figures. https://lpo.energy.gov/?page_id=45 http://factcheck.org/2012/10/romneys…ergy-whoppers/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me…ed-90-billion/ I've got an example of one of these arguments for Obama from the debate; that is an example where an honest criticism could have been argued but a sensationalized and fundamentally dishonest one was used. I'll throw that one in after I have some coffee. |
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I wish it weren't that way. I wish people would sit down and spend the hours to really look into what each candidate is saying. Frankly, I think a lot of the candidates would like that, too. Who wants their career ended because their tie clashed with their coat in a "debate"?? It would sure help our government to no end. |
Now here's a shot from Republicans that I didn't expect: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/06/ga…e-republicans/
Referenced website is here: http://www.colleensworld.com/ So I guess we're all a bunch of loonies stuck in our fantasy worlds. Thanks a lot GOP. Well, at least they aren't accusing us of holding satanic rituals while we play anymore. |
Wow, I guess none of us should run for a public office then. Right….
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Every time I read this thread's title, something in my mind desperately wants to read "VON6" … ;)
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Just what I suspected all along. The Horde are a bunch of liberals!
:p Actually after reading her posts she sounds like a lot of people I played with in MMO's-"I used to be normal and go to work every day" Lol |
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-pl…105911755.html
Senator issues report on government waste, lists Congress itself. Gotta love it. Quote:
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