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-   -   Kickstarter - Sui Generis (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18508)

Dhruin October 31st, 2012 22:03

Kickstarter - Sui Generis
 
Salvo writes in to point out Sui Generis, an RPG on Kickstarter described as "a ground breaking RPG for the PC that may just change the way you think about games". In more specific terms, the game is classless and doesn't use levels and also doesn't allow you to save-and-reload. They are looking for 150k Pounds (no, not dollars) over the next 29 days, which looks like a big ask:
Quote:

Originally inspired by our belief that we could do almost anything, we let our imaginations run free. What would be your idea of the ultimate role-playing experience if you weren't aware of any limits? That's what we've been asking ourselves for many years and Sui Generis is the culmination of our ideas.
Sui Generis is set in a dark, hostile mediaeval world pervaded by intrigue and treachery. A completely original work evolved over many years, the Sui Generis universe is the product of many rare moments of inspiration. It encompasses a vast and rich history spanning aeons and galaxies, not as vague mythology but actual chains of events leading to the current situation. In Sui Generis you will get a sense that everything is connected and exists for a reason. You won't just be fed the history in a cutscene or book and you may never know the full story. We believe that piecing together elusive clues will be of huge entertainment value.
Sui Generis is not about running around killing hordes of enemies in order to collect experience points and numerous items. It is about exploring a world and being involved in major events there. What exactly you do and how you do it is entirely up to you. The world is carefully designed to be believable and have a life of its own. It is not there to wait for you to go on quests, trigger events or make decisions. Events will take their course and may take a turn for the worse if you don't get involved.
Much of the time combat situations will be occasional yet meaningful. Few opponents can be dismissed as trivial. Though there are powerful items, even an old rusty sword can be effective in the right hands. There are no levels in Sui Generis, but there is a more natural progression system based on skills and thaumaturgic powers. There are no classes, but rather countless possible builds with diverse and interesting qualities.
As you advance in Sui Generis you won't see creatures or characters in the world becoming more powerful with you. Rather, you will be able to face opponents and explore locations that previously entailed certain death. Death will not be hard to come by and carries consequences, and there is no saving and loading. The game will put you in situations where trying to get out alive may be your only concern. We believe this is important to keep the game exciting. What's a game if you can't lose?
More information.

Biff The Understudy October 31st, 2012 22:04

There is just something about this project that gets my scammy sense tingeling.
Not sure if it is the fact that all the screen shots look way too familiar and way too good to have been done in a years time by a single artist.
Could also be the lofty claims accompanying all the pictures of the people (supposedly) involved. Which incidentally look like they were taken from random company sites or something similar.
Or it could be the fact that they dont list a dedicated writer.
Or the highly ambitious yet vague goals (alltho who the hell thinks no saving is a good idea?).
Just does not come off as legit to me.

Crilloan October 31st, 2012 22:25

No save and Im out.

Playing IWD on hard and im constantly reloading..
(yes, I suck…)

kind of curious about the team though.
Is this their first game to develop or have they tried their hands on game mechanics
in any other way?

C

Kordanor October 31st, 2012 22:31

Well, the physics look nice and no loading means that you actually need to put thoughts into decisions. However the video doesn't represent their vision at all.
For now it looks like a Diablo Clone with a physics based system…

borcanu October 31st, 2012 22:33

looks good. but i don't like the idea of these guys putting all their effort in this project. Currently it was a hobby for them.. so why not continue it like that.. and pull it out in 3 5 years.

Dajjer October 31st, 2012 22:43

No save and reload?

How does that work? If I quit the came to go to bed does that mean I have to start all over the next day. I always question the designers street cred when they make those type of gaming decisions.

plus what is up with the pounds goal instead of a dollar goal? The twenty dollars I pledge today might be 25 dollars in 30 days. (or less depending on the value of dollar to pound).

Kordanor October 31st, 2012 22:53

@Dajjer
No Save/Load usually means Iron Man Mode, ergo: Everything is saved automatically but you do not have savepoints. So if you make a decision, there is no going back to try out the other path. Much like FTL for example. Or Ironman on XCom or Mount and Blade with the option enabled.
But yes, they should have written more about it.

About the pound thing: It is an UK based company. Kickstarter opened to UK based projects just today, as can be read here:
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-in-the-uk

The Conversion rate might be something new for you - the rest of the world however had to deal with it already in the past.

spiraling69 October 31st, 2012 23:24

well I think it looks amazing! They should sell their game engine to Obsidian and use it to make Project Eternity!

It looks great, but I wonder if the engine can handle a multiple character team. I wonder if it can handle quest mechanics, ect. I think I will back them, but I just don't know if they will make it…

Igor October 31st, 2012 23:43

At first I trought it looks like Beyond Divinity witch was amazing and bad simultanely, so far it looks impressive and what else do you want to consider as ground breaking or in the right directory? Cause I recall not so many liked also the vision of Malevolence.

syllogz November 1st, 2012 00:12

What the bloody hell is wrong with people in the video game industry to gesticulate like that???
I've seen it before on big game conferences, even from big studios. Is it being taught them to jerk around like a marionette?
I mean I understand that if you want to make a point you raise one hand and point out, and if you really want to stress it, then you would do it with two hands.
But waving around with two hands constantly, completely out of any context???
I had to turn off the video after 30 sec, it was so annoying..

Learn to present your shit properly, and then I might consider listening.

rjshae November 1st, 2012 04:56

These guys like shadows. Lots and lots of shadows. Looks nice though.

vurt November 1st, 2012 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff The Understudy (Post 1061168818)
There is just something about this project that gets my scammy sense tingeling.
Not sure if it is the fact that all the screen shots look way too familiar and way too good to have been done in a years time by a single artist.

They're a whole team. "Way too famililar", like taken from another game? Explain the video then please? Oh, it's also stolen..? :roll:

Quote:

Could also be the lofty claims accompanying all the pictures of the people (supposedly) involved. Which incidentally look like they were taken from random company sites or something similar.
Again with the stealing? You really lack imagination.. Again, that isnt exactly legal and would likely kill the project within days when someone recognizes a photo / person. That would also happen if they indeed had stolen the tech/screens from some exisiting game.

About no saving, I think it's a really good idea, at least if you claim you want to create something intense and unique. Saving is often distracting from gameplay, especially in those games where you find yourself abusing it to no end, it becomes too much like cheating, face a boss and kill him after 40 tries because of pure luck, a glitch etc. I much prefer save points or no save and instead have a very balanced and intense game where you have to think and really care about your next move.

Anyways, looks absolutely fantastic (physics especially). It really made GTA IV a lot better imo, creates all sorts of either funny or dramatic scenes when fighting or getting run over or just barely touched by a passing car or person etc. This really needs to be in all games that contains melee fighting - each fight becomes completely unique instead of a repeative bore.

Dajjer November 1st, 2012 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kordanor (Post 1061168831)
@Dajjer
No Save/Load usually means Iron Man Mode, ergo: Everything is saved automatically but you do not have savepoints. So if you make a decision, there is no going back to try out the other path. Much like FTL for example. Or Ironman on XCom or Mount and Blade with the option enabled.
But yes, they should have written more about it.

About the pound thing: It is an UK based company. Kickstarter opened to UK based projects just today, as can be read here:
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-in-the-uk

The Conversion rate might be something new for you - the rest of the world however had to deal with it already in the past.

Re: save/reload Thanks for the explanation - But I still don't like it. It's my game let me save where I want. Back tracking on decisions certainly doesn't ruin "my" enjoyment of a game. And it certainly doesn't negate the point I made about developers making save game decisions for me.

Re: Conversion rates. Is the conversion rate locked when I pledged, or when the campaign is over or when they take the money out of my account? I know over a typical 30 day time frame the difference is only pennies. For example in October a 25 pound pledge could have been worth anything where from $39.98 to $40. 45.

CountChocula November 1st, 2012 07:14

This looked like a very interesting project, IMO. I thought the presentation was great and I'm inclined to contribute to this one. Thanks very much for the heads up, Dhruin!

I would have really liked to have seen some sort of commitment to releasing mod tools, however - the designer spent a lot of time showing what a great editor they developed, seems a shame not to make the tools available for fans to add and share new content. I think I will hold off on pledging for a bit, hopefully they might comment regarding mod tools.

The idea of no saving seems very strange. I tend to prefer games where the combat is very challenging and I die and reload hundreds of times. If I am able to survive the entire game without dying, it seems as though the combat might not be as enjoyable; however, I gather they may simply have some sort of "special consequences" like you lose half your gold and teleport to another area or something along those lines. With such a massive open world, I'm a bit skeptical that the game would work out without being able to save and reload anywhere you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by syllogz (Post 1061168843)
What the bloody hell is wrong with people in the video game industry to gesticulate like that???
I've seen it before on big game conferences, even from big studios. Is it being taught them to jerk around like a marionette?
I mean I understand that if you want to make a point you raise one hand and point out, and if you really want to stress it, then you would do it with two hands.
But waving around with two hands constantly, completely out of any context???
I had to turn off the video after 30 sec, it was so annoying..

Learn to present your shit properly, and then I might consider listening.

These are not "people in the video game industry" - the guy has been developing this game with a group of friends for a number of years as a hobby. He's certainly not a polished publishing exec looking to sweep savvy investors off their feet, for example.

I thought the presentation was solid, in terms of the details conveyed and the editor demo. I've seen much worse Kickstarter videos where someone who was neither a polished presenter nor a talented comedian tried to imitate some of the funnier videos and failed horribly. I think in the case of Sui Generis, Madoc Evans was wise to keep it simple and not try to compete with those funny or irreverent videos by more established studios.

I do think they should have dedicated at least part of the video (or hopefully a future video) to showcasing role playing elements of the game, lore, backstory, quests, character creation options and progression, etc.

GhanBuriGhan November 1st, 2012 09:40

I think this is exiting. We should not just support proven hands, KS should also be a way to support new talent to enter the games industry.

Biff The Understudy November 1st, 2012 09:44

@Vurt
The video was not up when i made that post and based on the text/pictures the whole thing came off as very iffy.
Looking at the video however i would say the project looks very promising.

JDR13 November 1st, 2012 09:55

Looks and sounds good, but I would have prefered a third-person view or at least a much closer camera. As it stands now, I have to agree that it kinda looks like a Diablo clone with physics.

vurt November 1st, 2012 09:57

@Biff ah ok.

Speaking of iffy? 3 pledges of $2000 and almost nothing else? To me it looks like the 3 pledges are there just to make it look like its a very successful start, to make people jump on the train so to speak. It's not too hard to later remove your pledge or just point it to an account where there isnt enough cash and the withdrawal will fail (but the backing will still succeed and they will get the rest of the money). Obviously i'm not implying something or that someone is doing something illegal here. Just an observation..

@JDR13: this is like pre-pre alpha though, much can change, including camera. Not too hard to add zoom.

GhanBuriGhan November 1st, 2012 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by vurt (Post 1061168879)
@Biff ah ok.

Speaking of iffy? 3 pledges of $2000 and almost nothing else? To me it looks like the 3 pledges are there just to make it look like its a very successful start, to make people jump on the train so to speak. It's not too hard to later remove your pledge or just point it to an account where there isnt enough cash and the withdrawal will fail (but the backing will still succeed and they will get the rest of the money). Obviously i'm not implying something or that someone is doing something illegal here. Just an observation..

@JDR13: this is like pre-pre alpha though, much can change, including camera. Not too hard to add zoom.

Could also be some reasonably wealthy friends or relatives, though… (just to offer another explanation)

vurt November 1st, 2012 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan (Post 1061168882)
Could also be some reasonably wealthy friends or relatives, though… (just to offer another explanation)

Absolutely, could be :) Though why not give it to them directly then and avoid the fees to KS? Would be more beneficial for the devs.

Could be 3 people who really wants the game. But i must say its slightly odd to have 3 really super hardcore fans and almost 0 other fans ;)


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