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-   -   Sui Generis - Update #4 (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18575)

Myrthos November 8th, 2012 13:03

Sui Generis - Update #4
 
An update on Kickstarter for Sui Generis showed up expressing some of their thoughts on the game.
Quote:

Here's a quick update in response to some of the opinions that seem to have formed regarding our game. We are simply expressing some of our thoughts here.
Yes, you start the game as an anonymous villager. The whole point here is that you create your own character and write your own story. If you want to play a named hero with a rich background, predefined personality and a clear mission ahead, then you're looking at the wrong game. Personally, we feel completely alienated from such characters.
Yes, your character does turn out to be special. If you weren't special you wouldn't stand a chance. And here comes a spoiler. Rather than providing you with this astounding power to record moments in time and return to them whenever you please (read save/load) so that you may win every battle, eventually, even by pure chance; we thought it better for it to be an element of the story. We don't just brush over this as an every day "respawn" or other mechanic. Also, to quote our project page, "not as vague mythology but actual chains of events leading to the current situation".
Yes, our world is under duress, you won't be picking daisies. As for a looming threat, you may have no idea what it is until it's too late. Nothing is as it seems. There is no evil in our world. There may be lack of scruples, ruthlessness or just genuine oversight, but motives are often complex and valid to those who hold them.
What you should be paying attention to when reading our brief summary of the premise are the "ifs" and "buts". We dislike linear story, we hate linear story, no, we truly despise linear story. If you asked us what is as pleasant as being poked in the eye, we'd have to answer "linear story".
We have not given you a story. We have intentionally lured you into thinking of this as a fairly typical fantasy RPG. Guess what? We don't like those either. We are of a skeptical nature and when faced with the usual fantasy claptrap, much like an inquisitive child, our answer is simply "but why?". There is lots of because in our world. We have taken what appears to be generic fantasy and given it a whole new twist. A lot of effort has gone into this and to reveal it would be to throw it all away. We hold it more dear than the funds we are trying to raise. If by not revealing it we fail in securing your support, then so be it.
We have been asked about character interactions and such. Well, sometimes we want to chat and sometimes we just want to kill stuff. Must be those hormones. Thing is, when the latter mood takes us, and some whining NPC decides to illustrate their sensitive nature to us, the solution is clear: smack 'em in the gob, throw 'em in the river, then perhaps evaluate whether their home looks to be a suitable place to store our booty. If this errant behaviour should upset someone, well, let them come. That, to us, is role playing. What we tend to be presented with in "games with choices" is something like this:
1) Help the distressed peasant now
2) Help the distressed peasant later
3) Help the distressed peasant reluctantly
That is not role playing. We don't know what it is, but we don't like it.
You may encounter characters with sunny dispositions that are not always genuine and heartfelt. You may find yourself trying to divine your interlocutor's true intent, hopefully you are well versed in the arts of subtlety and sarcasm. You may also encounter characters with good or even noble intentions, and yet these intentions may not be in your best interests. Our game will certainly feature moral dilemmas and ambiguities.

Undoubtedly much of what we say sounds familiar and doesn't strike you as original, but perhaps it has at least conveyed something of our ethos. Take home what you will.

Big thanks to everyone who is supporting us.
More information.

SpoonFULL November 8th, 2012 13:03

Bold statements, and confirmed my previous view that this more looks like mount and blade, which is one of the best and unique experiences that I had in playing a game. A rare genere. I will support them.

Nameless one November 8th, 2012 15:49

Not really diplomatic or apologetic,I begin to like this guys more and more.I agree with Spoon it sound like Mount and blade kind of world and there are not much games like that.Also all I found about save system was vague,it sounds like it will be like ironman mod from other games,did I miss part or update where they clear that up?

DeepO November 8th, 2012 15:59

Quote:

We have intentionally lured you into thinking of this as a fairly typical fantasy RPG.
How very fair.

GhanBuriGhan November 8th, 2012 16:00

There is a single save but the game saves constantly (again similar to M&B). There is some in-game way to resurrect, death is not permanent. However, a separate iron man mode is also planned.

azarhal November 8th, 2012 16:27

The save system is more like saving your progress to stop you from reloading and trying the "other" options. It enforce the choices you made previously.

Mr Smiley November 8th, 2012 17:14

Gotta love that pitch! Hope they can deliver on at least some of those promises. As I said before, to me this is the best kickstarter yet. (Perhaps not counting Project Eternity, but for some reason I'm more excited by this one.)

crpgnut November 8th, 2012 17:21

I couldn't stand Mount and Blade. It was a tactical combat simulator and not a game. If that's what this is, I'll have to withdraw my pledge. I'm not sure that it is Mount and Blade. MB has no magic, at least not in the version I played. There was no thaumaturgy, or anything else for that matter. If this is a glorified combat game, then it's definitely not for me. I don't play crpgs for combat. If fact, I'm playing FNV with 7 companions, just so I never need to draw my weapon if I don't want to ;)

Dez November 8th, 2012 17:23

Quote:

We have been asked about character interactions and such. Well, sometimes we want to chat and sometimes we just want to kill stuff. Must be those hormones.
This no bs attitude is so refreshing! :) Don't know though how well it attracts new donations.

SpoonFULL November 8th, 2012 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1061170013)
I couldn't stand Mount and Blade. It was a tactical combat simulator and not a game. If that's what this is, I'll have to withdraw my pledge. I'm not sure that it is Mount and Blade. MB has no magic, at least not in the version I played. There was no thaumaturgy, or anything else for that matter. If this is a glorified combat game, then it's definitely not for me. I don't play crpgs for combat. If fact, I'm playing FNV with 7 companions, just so I never need to draw my weapon if I don't want to ;)

It is in the spirit of Mount and Blade in that you do whatever you like and make your own story (almost like Gothic 3 without the lore). Ofcourse it is not going to be Mount & Blade as they have not mentioned any trading, houses, companions, or armies.

crpgnut November 8th, 2012 18:09

Good! While I enjoy some combat, I prefer games that have a well-balanced rpg diet ;) I like playing a pacifist sometimes, so I hope a light-combat playthough is possible. I would never play Dark Souls, for instance. Mount and Blade got about 3 hours from me. It's ironic that these guys want to build a crpg but they don't mention anything made in less than a decade ago as an influence. Do they know their audience, is a legitimate question. I'm hoping for a New Vegas-type game, with a different perspective. Time will tell…..

I get a little bit of an elitist vibe from the main poster for Bare Mettle. A little bit of, " I don't like the way anyone else has done fantasy crpgs, and I can do better". Oh, really? You want money from people who enjoy fantasy crpgs, right? Then maybe you better have a deeper appreciation of what has come before, or you look like a snob. It is much better to praise what you like in other games than to downplay what you don't. I don't really think he feels that way, but I'm not sure.

SpoonFULL November 8th, 2012 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1061170026)
Good! While I enjoy some combat, I prefer games that have a well-balanced rpg diet ;) I like playing a pacifist sometimes, so I hope a light-combat playthough is possible. I would never play Dark Souls, for instance. Mount and Blade got about 3 hours from me. It's ironic that these guys want to build a crpg but they don't mention anything made in less than a decade ago as an influence. Do they know their audience, is a legitimate question. I'm hoping for a New Vegas-type game, with a different perspective. Time will tell…..

I get a little bit of an elitist vibe from the main poster for Bare Mettle. A little bit of, " I don't like the way anyone else has done fantasy crpgs, and I can do better". Oh, really? You want money from people who enjoy fantasy crpgs, right? Then maybe you better have a deeper appreciation of what has come before, or you look like a snob. It is much better to praise what you like in other games than to downplay what you don't. I don't really think he feels that way, but I'm not sure.

Agree, for those who don't know the genere they need some references to other similar games or influences. We will wait and see, I pledged the minimum and hope to hear more (political) updates from them.

crpgnut November 8th, 2012 19:27

I pledged a little higher than that, but we're on the same page. I want to like Sui Generis and am waiting for them to say or show something that is a little more exciting than a combat/physics demo. Unless they learn to market very quickly, the kickstarter will fail. Maybe a little humble pie will teach them a lesson that needs to be learned to truly be successful. To be honest the physics could be the best ever and the game design be total crap. What's the world like? How many continents? What level of industry? Swords and sorcery, or do we get muskets and cannon too? Is it a monarchy, a feudal society, a republic, do they even know yet? Give some history of the grand events of the past. This isn't poker, it's blackjack. We have to know what some of the cards are…well we don't if you're paying for it instead of us.

ChienAboyeur November 8th, 2012 19:35

They might make it. Slowly but surely.

Uncompromizing so far. To what point?

ChienAboyeur November 8th, 2012 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1061170026)
Good! While I enjoy some combat, I prefer games that have a well-balanced rpg diet ;)

And what is that, a balanced RPG diet?

crpgnut November 8th, 2012 19:56

Hmmm, you pick how the pyramid stacks but I'd say these are the elements:

Exploration
Combat
Skill/Attribute/Character manipulation
Inventory and Item acquisition and management
Story (this includes dialogue, party banter, etc)
Subsystem manipulation (magic,crafting, alchemy, augmentations, etc.)
Lore, History

Sacred_Path November 8th, 2012 20:42

Quote:

We have intentionally lured you into thinking of this as a fairly typical fantasy RPG.
That's a great attitude when people have paid you upfront with nothing but your pitch to go on.

DArtagnan November 9th, 2012 11:32

These guys smack of immature arrogance. The tech looks nice - but I'll have to see something like an actual game to be convinced this is worthy of attention.

vurt November 9th, 2012 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061170138)
These guys smack of immature arrogance. The tech looks nice - but I'll have to see something like an actual game to be convinced this is worthy of attention.

You're arrogant. How many KS projects has an engine that is as evolved as this, how many KS projects has a game to show off? I do agree most of the gameplay is just on paper, but that goes for 99% of all KS projects.

KS just isnt for you.

DArtagnan November 9th, 2012 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by vurt (Post 1061170149)
You're arrogant. How many KS projects has an engine that is evolved as this, how many KS projects has a game to show off? I do agree most of the gameplay is just on paper, but that goes for 99% of all KS projects.

KS just isnt for you.

You may consider me arrogant, but that's completely irrelevant here. I'm speaking my mind based on their approach and their style.

They sound like arrogant developers with an extremely high opinion of their ability to deliver. That's fine - and arrogance can be a useful tool.

But until they demonstrate something more, I'll remain extremely sceptical. That's because my experience is that if you can really deliver - you don't have to oversell that message constantly by bragging about how fantastic you are, but you can't actually reveal how - exactly. That's not convincing to me. Try reading their KS page again, if you missed that.

Obviously, you think differently - and that's fine.

If you can't handle that opinion, I'm ok with that.


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