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-   -   RPGWatch - New Poll (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18609)

Dhruin November 11th, 2012 01:57

RPGWatch - New Poll
 
Yes, I know, the old poll was past it's use-by date long ago. So, a new poll.
Our news is dominated these days with crowdfunding campaigns - be it Kickstarter, Indiegogo or even independent efforts.

Do you see this as a new era, supporting indie and middle-tier developments without the burden of publishers - or do you want a finished product before you spend your hard-earned? Is there yet another perspective?

Hit up the poll and comments.
More information.

Sacred_Path November 11th, 2012 01:57

I'm supporting Project: Eternity, and I'm contemplating Wasteland 2 and (lol, yes) Grimoire. There are indie projects ttbomk run by one person or very small teams with goals in the ten thousands, which makes it seem like they're trying to profit from the surge of popularity crowd-funding seems to enjoy right now. But for those projects, I usually would only donate very small sums.

Igor November 11th, 2012 11:43

I am not understanding the meaning of
Quote:

There are indie projects ttbomk run by one person or very small teams with goals in the ten thousands, which makes it seem like they're trying to profit from the surge of popularity crowd-funding seems to enjoy right now.
Is like the product does not cost nothing, entirely free aquired by ilegal means,they are just making profit for a product that will be free for majority of users.

Sacred_Path November 11th, 2012 15:55

You cannot into English, by chance?

ChaosTheory November 11th, 2012 16:56

The only one I've ever done, or likely ever will: Project Eternity. And it's all about Obsidian and the people behind it. They're an established company with high-end RPG-pedigree folks producing. It's a "can't fail" project, so I threw $1k at it.

I can't think of another setup that would have me consider a second donation, but who knows…

Falchor November 11th, 2012 18:13

For me: Banner saga, Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, Shadowrun, Legends of Eisenwald.

I didn't pledge much over the minimum on each (Project Eternity I pledged the most by far). My feeling is if 3 of 5 pan out, then I'm in a lot better place gaming-wise than I am right now… amidst the Mass Effects, Call of Dudies, etc

turian November 11th, 2012 21:00

80% of the games will suck

Moriendor November 11th, 2012 22:05

The biggest enemy of crowdfunding is the crowd ;) .

Gamers' expectations and -worse- sense of entitlement are the single biggest threat to crowdfunding.
And I'm not talking about you guys or (the majority of) us here but more of the peripheral "casual" crowd who got sucked into the hype by the media or who just hopped on the bandwagon to be trendy.
Those are the people expecting AAA+ games from the crowdfunding projects and the ones who will be sorely disappointed if they find out that limited budgets and limited development times will "only" result in A- or B+ games, especially as far as the production qualities are concerned (i.e. limited graphical and aural fidelity etc.).

It is anyone's guess how much of an impact expectations not met are going to have on future projects but unless my assumed premise is entirely wrong it is almost guaranteed that there will be a fairly major impact [… that may very well be compensated by new people being attracted to crowdfunding because a game exceeds more people's expectations than the opposite but how likely is that?… well, as I said… anyone's guess… I guess ;) ].


With all of that said, I have personally contributed to PE and I'm sort of contemplating Roberts' space game but I'm undecided due to the MMO-ish nature of the game. It's turning me both off and then on in a way. Dunno… just can't make up my mind whether it is worthy of support.
Also, I'm this moral kind of asshole who finds it hard to justify donating to the development of a game when I've donated fuck all to anything else.
So I've sworn to myself to donate at least 2x the amount I spend on crowdfunding this year to some kind of charity by year's end and so I'm naturally a bit hesitant to pledge to another project due to the exponential effect on my charity donation :biggrin: .

Igor November 11th, 2012 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriendor (Post 1061170507)
It is anyone's guess how much of an impact expectations not met are going to have on future projects but unless my assumed premise is entirely wrong it is almost guaranteed that there will be a fairly major impact [… that may very well be compensated by new people being attracted to crowdfunding because a game exceeds more people's expectations than the opposite but how likely is that?… well, as I said… anyone's guess… I guess ;) ].

Yes I agree about this and only thing that is worth is Metascore of Metacritic, that will affect Fallout 4 for sure.

Lucky Day November 11th, 2012 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriendor (Post 1061170507)
The biggest enemy of crowdfunding is the crowd ;) .

Gamers' expectations and -worse- sense of entitlement are the single biggest threat to crowdfunding.
And I'm not talking about you guys or (the majority of) us here but more of the peripheral "casual" crowd who got sucked into the hype by the media or who just hopped on the bandwagon to be trendy.
Those are the people expecting AAA+ games from the crowdfunding projects and the ones who will be sorely disappointed if they find out that limited budgets and limited development times will "only" result in A- or B+ games, especially as far as the production qualities are concerned (i.e. limited graphical and aural fidelity etc.).

It is anyone's guess how much of an impact expectations not met are going to have on future projects but unless my assumed premise is entirely wrong it is almost guaranteed that there will be a fairly major impact [… that may very well be compensated by new people being attracted to crowdfunding because a game exceeds more people's expectations than the opposite but how likely is that?… well, as I said… anyone's guess… I guess ;) ].
.

This is a really good point. Democracy may not be the best form of decision making. This is what David Crane tried to do with Jungle Adventure and, to a lesser degree, Shaker.

I think of organizations like Maple Leaf Entertainment which runs the Toronto Maple Leafs as a great example of dysfunction.

Capt. Huggy Face November 12th, 2012 02:27

Quote:

So I've sworn to myself to donate at least 2x the amount I spend on crowdfunding this year to some kind of charity by year's end and so I'm naturally a bit hesitant to pledge to another project due to the exponential effect on my charity donation :biggrin: .
I could've sworn my kickstaarts would've surpassed the donations I make at this one website. Turns out I have 17 Kickstarters, 11 of which are games, and 23 donations. Kickstarter is closing the gap fast, though… :p

rune_74 November 12th, 2012 04:04

I believe in crowd funding, but I don't ever give large sums of money like 1000. I believe in puting out small amounts to a lot of projects so say if I get a fail on investment it isn't a big deal. Does anyone really care if they lose 15?

DArtagnan November 12th, 2012 12:04

I don't think the lower production values will have a "major impact" at all. Most crowdfunding projects have screenshots and other things to make it plain what the end result will be like in those terms.

Also, the nature of the model is such that casuals aren't required to make it work. Dedicated fanbases will be enough for the vast majority of these games.

No, I think the primary challenge for crowdfunding is that too many of them will end up not being what was promised - and won't be delivered on time. I think some developers will find that not having strict deadlines and publishers breathing down their necks will tend to extend development time more than they might be prepared for.

It doesn't take too many of the really interesting projects to fail before people start getting sceptical and stop supporting in general.

That's my main worry - and the reason I'm holding off my support. However, if it turns out that "most" of these games actually get released within a reasonable timeframe AND they turn out to be actual quality games - not just a bunch of partially implemented ideas - THEN I'll probably start supporting quite a few of them.

While I absolutely adore the contept - I have to say I don't have enough faith in modern developers to go with blind support.

crpgnut November 12th, 2012 15:40

I'm following you there, DArt. I gave to Obsidian because they're an established developer who wants to try something new. I'm almost guaranteed that this particular game will come out because it would ruin several careers if it doesn't. I really think Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, et al, want to stay employed after Eternity :)

rjshae November 12th, 2012 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1061170605)
I'm following you there, DArt. I gave to Obsidian because they're an established developer who wants to try something new. I'm almost guaranteed that this particular game will come out because it would ruin several careers if it doesn't. I really think Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, et al, want to stay employed after Eternity :)

Massive exaggeration, perhaps? I doubt that their careers will be ruined at this point, but I think they are spending enough time and effort on this that they will most certainly want it to succeed. It could also lead to follow-on work, which is another motivator.

ToddMcF2002 November 13th, 2012 14:27

There is too much noise… Lots of lame efforts that best case look like school projects. The good ones are 1 in 10 best case and I find myself wasting time checking out the news items. I personally don't think the Watch should cover anything with a funding goal under $75k. Let the rest fight for attention in the indie forum.

Gokyabgu November 13th, 2012 17:00

For me crowdfunding is a completely new era for cRPG gaming. It opened the road for RPGs both good looking and hardcore at the same time. I have backed 14 projects so far and large part of my money that I reserve for gaming goes to crowdfunding projects. I know that I can’t play them immediately. But I’m more than happy, because I have something that I didn’t have one year ago: hope for the future of cRPGs

Before crowdfunding era, single player RPG making has divided into two separate ways. There’re big budgeted AAA titles that have action gameplay, shiny graphics and much cinematics. And indie RPGs with strong loyalty into the roots of RPGs, but lack of enough presentation, graphics etc. Middle sized RPG development has died at the beginning of 2000s. I’m a great fan of Infinity Engine games, Fallout 1-2, Arcanum, ToEE, Wizardry 8, Might &Magic 6-8. But as we all know well games in the veins of these games from big publishers are impossible. Indie developers can provide these game mechanics, but they are mostly failing at presentation.

Crowdfunding provided fresh blood for the market. And it has many advantages. With this system many independent companies like Obsidian, Inxile or Double Fine can make games that we hardcore gamers wanted, rather than publishers’ PR guys wanted. Many great developers of the past either work at big companies to earn money or completely abandoned game development. Now crowdfunding gives them a chance to return to the scene.

But there’re also disadvantages. In order to make a middle budgeted RPG game you have to collect 500.000-1.000.000 $. And to collect this money either you must be a somewhat famous developer or you have a popular license in your possession(even this isn’t enough in some cases). *It’s nearly impossible for a non-famous developer to succeed at collecting that amount of money. So many potential has been wasting.

Dhruin November 13th, 2012 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 (Post 1061170734)
There is too much noise… Lots of lame efforts that best case look like school projects. The good ones are 1 in 10 best case and I find myself wasting time checking out the news items. I personally don't think the Watch should cover anything with a funding goal under $75k. Let the rest fight for attention in the indie forum.

Really? You don't think we should cover Antharion, for example? But we should cover Grimoire because he asked for a ridiculous amount?

ToddMcF2002 November 13th, 2012 22:46

I'm just looking for a workable filter. Not sure on Antharion. Looks decent if generic but I can't appreciate the goofy South Park inspired avatars or lack of animations. Environments look good though… Bottom line is I see the experienced rpg crowd funded developers making the RPGs we want. Filling the gap if you will. Many, but not all of the others just do not impress… maybe they need to bake in the indie forum until sufficient interest is generated before they are considered news worthy? Just an idea…

rune_74 November 14th, 2012 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 (Post 1061170806)
I'm just looking for a workable filter. Not sure on Antharion. Looks decent if generic but I can't appreciate the goofy South Park inspired avatars or lack of animations. Environments look good though… Bottom line is I see the experienced rpg crowd funded developers making the RPGs we want. Filling the gap if you will. Many, but not all of the others just do not impress… maybe they need to bake in the indie forum until sufficient interest is generated before they are considered news worthy? Just an idea…

Don't agree at all. So only give the big names news notice(generating backing) and let the indie ones fend for themselves. Seems very narrowminded.


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