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-   -   Sui Generis - Kickstarter Update #11, Items and Equipment (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18717)

Myrthos November 24th, 2012 00:46

Sui Generis - Kickstarter Update #11, Items and Equipment
 
For the update of today the devs of Sui Generis (79K/150K, 6days) offer more insight into items, equipment and the inventory system.
Quote:

We've got some pretty cool features planned for our inventory system. We're going to be using a "slotless" inventory system. In practice this means there's over a hundred slots and you don't see them. This allows you to equip many combinations of things, rather than being limited to articles of clothing or armour that cover a fixed part of your character's body.
To make clothes we use a dedicated cloth simulator and other tools we've developed. This allows us to make realistic clothes very quickly and easily. It also allows clothes to change depending on what else you're wearing. For example, long trousers will tuck into boots realistically.
Quote:

Items will have properties that make sense. You won't be just wearing as many items as possible because they confer stat bonuses. You will wear specific items because they do something useful or because you like the way they look.
Most items you find will be fairly mundane. However a good, well balanced weapon can be a significant upgrade over a crude weapon; an armour made of well tempered plates that interlock cleverly and is well padded can provide a huge advantage in terms of protection, manoeuvrability and even things like insulation. Such items can also carry a high monetary value.
There will however also be a great many items with much more special qualities. These won't be randomly generated items that make no apparent sense, they will have plausible though sometimes quirky qualities, you will get a sense that someone designed them with a purpose. These items will be well hidden and well guarded, they won't just spawn at random. If you defeat an opponent you will be able to take whatever they have equipped and they will have been using this equipment to combat you.
More information.

Moorkh November 24th, 2012 00:46

C'mon, where did everyone's enthusiasm for this one go?
As far as I see they did everything right so far. Except launching their kickstarter too close to xmas and too soon after PE and Star Citizen, so I really can't spend more than the minimum at the moment…
Anyways, is it just because they are virtual nobodies that this is looking so bad for them?

crpgnut November 24th, 2012 08:31

That, and the fact they were too vague in the beginning. Kickstarters are as much about how you launch as they are about how you finish. If you don't make 15% or so on the first day, then most projects don't recover. Also, while it looks like they want $150,000, this is UK funds so that translates to nearly a quarter million. I'm not sure a wannabe, no matter how talented, is really worth that type of investment. I bought in, but with a pretty good idea that the project would fail.

GhanBuriGhan November 24th, 2012 09:58

Yes, it's a combination. Overall they are not doing bad at all - they will probably raise at least 100.000p, $160.000 - that is really good for a team that is 100% unknowns. They were almost continuously in the hot 7 list on kicktraq after the first few days. It also makes sense to ask as much as they do, I think, no chance to do a satifying sandbox RPG, if you can't put a certain amount of manpower into building the content, no matter how good your tools are. But, in hindsight, it would have taken a near perfect KS campaign to reach that goal, and this wasn't:
- no buildup prior to the KS, therefore they did not have the typical starting rush. Look at the very unusual trend curve on kicktraq!
- they did not plan in enough time to babysit the KS - they are working and didn't plan for a holiday I think - so replies and updates were sluggish.
- and most of the info is technical - it's still hard to get a "feel" for the game they want to do

Dhruin November 24th, 2012 11:24

To me, RPGs are all about the content. I don't know anything about their content.

GhanBuriGhan November 24th, 2012 12:49

To me this is a spiritual successor of Daggerfall, which wasn't really about the content (as in story / characters). Still they should speak more about heir world, and goals in term of design and mood.

ChaosTheory November 24th, 2012 16:52

I see this as a kickstarter for their engine, with maybe a demo-level RPG game as a side effect. That said, the engine looks great and they may very well become successful businessmen as a result.

But I'm not into free funding venture capital.

hiciacit November 24th, 2012 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhruin
To me, RPGs are all about the content. I don't know anything about their content.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory
I see this as a kickstarter for their engine, with maybe a demo-level RPG game as a side effect. That said, the engine looks great and they may very well become successful businessmen as a result.

But I'm not into free funding venture capital.

And this.

The fighting mechanics and some of their ideas are great. But without any info on what the world, story, NPC interactions, quests (they said they wouldn't be having any as such, but at least some info on what type of stuff you might be doing apart from combat and how that would affect the world around you), … I might back it if they provide some concrete info on that, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

GhanBuriGhan November 24th, 2012 21:06

Just to play devils advocate - what do you guys know about PE's content.

hiciacit November 24th, 2012 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan (Post 1061172666)
Just to play devils advocate - what do you guys know about PE's content.

Nothing. Which is exactly the problem if they want my money.

EDIT: Ok, I read that a little too fast. PE = Project Eternity? Well, a lot more than what we know of Sui Generis. Plus, given the track record of who's making PE, you at least have some idea of what to expect when it comes to NPC interactions, branching quests, dialogue and writing, …
For the record: I didn't back PE either, but that's because I was a little late to the party so the speak.

GhanBuriGhan November 24th, 2012 21:40

I followed PE more or less closely - but the only reason to support it is the "track record". Regarding the setting I think I know little more than what we have seen from SG. Regarding the story of PE we know: "The player witnesses an extraordinary and horrific supernatural event that thrusts them into a unique and difficult circumstance. Burdened with the consequences of this event, the player has to investigate what has happened in order to free themselves from the restless forces that follow and haunt them wherever they go."
Which is just as nondescript and generic as what we got from Bare Mettle. But shorter.

Now I am not trying to diss anyone supporting PE. I understand, it's Obsidian. Rolemodeled (that's the promise) after some of the greatest RPGs ever. By some of the people that made those.
But its funny because I did not support PE because I never got a feel for what they wanted to do among all the buzzwords. Yet I support SG, although they largely share that failing. Just makes me wonder what makes us back certain projects and not others. I guess in my case it's partly a certain sympathy for the underdog project, and partly because I like sandbox RPGs and this one promises to be one, uncompromisingly so.

Asdraguuhl November 24th, 2012 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan (Post 1061172666)
Just to play devils advocate - what do you guys know about PE's content.

That it will be created by Tim Cain, Chris Avellone, Josh Sawyer & Co. And that is enough for me :).

EDIT:
I posted this before seeing the two prior posts so it is somewhat redundant now.

DArtagnan November 24th, 2012 21:44

Well, I had a very negative reaction to their writing style and obvious arrogance - but I have to say I really like their thoughts on mechanics design. The way they talk about itemization sounds a lot like what I'm trying to do with my own project.

Still, they should definitely up the details and be more clear about their exact goals.

GhanBuriGhan November 24th, 2012 21:45

@ Asdraguuhl: So should we support only people who have proven they can function under the publisher model? And should we let them get away with: "It's gonna be as great as Game A and Game B, but with the best of Game C thrown in. Only betterer!". Because that, more or less, was their pitch.

arthureloi November 24th, 2012 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061172671)
Well, I had a very negative reaction to their writing style and obvious arrogance - but I have to say I really like their thoughts on mechanics design. The way they talk about itemization sounds a lot like what I'm trying to do with my own project.

Still, they should definitely up the details and be more clear about their exact goals.

Hey! I didn`t know that you had a project. If you need a musicman just call =D

DArtagnan November 24th, 2012 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthureloi (Post 1061172675)
Hey! I didn`t know that you had a project. If you need a musicman just call =D

Hehe, it's been a while since I worked on it… Trying to find my creative energy and the time to focus :(

But thanks for the offer, and who knows - I might take you up on it! ;)

Asdraguuhl November 24th, 2012 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan (Post 1061172672)
@ Asdraguuhl: So should we support only people who have proven they can function under the publisher model? And should we let them get away with: "It's gonna be as great as Game A and Game B, but with the best of Game C thrown in. Only betterer!". Because that, more or less, was their pitch.

No. But people without a proven track record do not have that luxury and they need to focus their pitch differently.

Dhruin November 24th, 2012 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan (Post 1061172666)
Just to play devils advocate - what do you guys know about PE's content.

I see this a bit and, sorry to be combative, but I think it's disingenuous.

Pretty much everything I need to know short of direct spoilers. I have a rough feel for the likely size of the areas, the world map, the way you transition to maps, a rough idea of a typical combat encounter, the sort of quests I will encounter, the quality of the quests and the writing, how much emphasis is placed on multiple solutions and paths, what dialogue will feel like, how characters are developed, the balance of combat, exploration and dialogue and more.

How do I know? Because I've played every single released game from both the company involved but also every single released game from the major development leads. Also, every single game from the main inspiration.

Not like Shaker where I'd played a few games from a series where I'm not clear exactly what Brenda Brathwaite did and one game from Tom Hall (great game that it is). I'm talking at least two dozen+ games and I'm pretty clear how they were involved. I know these guys. Yes, the details vary. Yes, I may have the wrong impression because they may do something different this time - but from IWD to F:NV, there are similarities in the feel and style of the quests and writing.

Now, I've backed plenty of speculative Kickstarters - might even back this one. But I don't really care about combat too much and other than the promise of an open world (how open? how big? what can I do there?), I don't understand the minute-to-minute gameplay on anything like the same level of PE.


Hmm. Guess my inner Obsidian fanboi really showed there but I stand by the points.

hiciacit November 24th, 2012 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhruin (Post 1061172687)
…

Pretty much everything I need to know short of direct spoilers. I have a rough feel for the likely size of the areas, the world map, the way you transition to maps, a rough idea of a typical combat encounter, the sort of quests I will encounter, the quality of the quests and the writing, how much emphasis is placed on multiple solutions and paths, what dialogue will feel like, how characters are developed, the balance of combat, exploration and dialogue and more.

…

Now, I've backed plenty of speculative Kickstarters - might even back this one. But I don't really care about combat too much and other than the promise of an open world (how open? how big? what can I do there?), I don't understand the minute-to-minute gameplay on anything like the same level of PE.

That's how I feel too. Bare Mettle simply hasn't showed enough of the things I'm interested in in a game to make me want to support them. In fact, rather the opposite considering the way they replied when people started asking about it. It may not have been their intention, but it came across defensive and like they didn't have much in that department: "It will be very great, wtf are you questioning us for?! We told you we had it all under control!" And then all of a sudden they have a writer on board (so who was doing the writing before? can I assume they had little dialogue/story content up until then?), whose writings I didn't like much either.

With Obsidian the case is different, because indeed you have a good feeling of what to expect. That's hardly Bare Mettle or Obsidian's fault, just the way it is.
So in short, if they want my money, I need to to at least have some idea that they can deliver the things I like in games.

Fluent November 24th, 2012 23:45

So what's the point of Kickstater if nobody wants to support the underdogs who aren't well known? Seems to me like Kickstarter is completely pointless and only the well known people will do good on it. Sad.


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