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-   -   Bill O'Reilly - Christianity Not A Religion (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18806)

Korplem December 5th, 2012 02:05

Bill O'Reilly - Christianity Not A Religion

I try to stay out of the P&R forum but this really got to me. Bill O'Reilly showed that he is not afraid to outright lie on television to support his agenda. He claims that Christianity is not a religion but a philosophy. What an absolute asshat.

Corwin December 5th, 2012 02:13

WELLLLLLLL……………, While it sounds ridiculous, I could argue the point quite easily. Frequently, religion is defined as man reaching out to God(s) while Christianity could be defined as God reaching out to man!! Also, Christianity is 'supposed' to be a Way of Life which in a sense is what a philosophy describes. However, all of this is little more than the nitpicking of an academic debater.

CountChocula December 5th, 2012 02:16

Santa Claus goes in, presents come out. You can't explain that.

Thrasher December 5th, 2012 02:16


That's different from saying "Christianity is not a religion." This statement is plainly false. Why anyone would listen to O'Reilly about anything is beyond reason, unless it's just for laughs or shock value.

Corwin December 5th, 2012 02:20

The nitpicking point Thrasher is that if man's search for God defines something being a religion, then the reverse is NOT a religion. Yes, I know it's a petty argument, but debaters use them all the time. It's half the fun of debating!! :) I'm not seriously proposing that Christianity is not a religion.

Thrasher December 5th, 2012 02:22

Well that's arguing/trolling just for the sake of arguing. Not really interesting to me.

Fluent December 5th, 2012 02:40


Originally Posted by Corwin (Post 1061174145)
While it sounds ridiculous, religion is defined as man reaching out to God(s) while Christianity could be defined as God reaching out to man!!

Well you are right about sounding ridiculous. Oh boy.

zahratustra December 5th, 2012 16:30


Originally Posted by Corwin (Post 1061174145)
Also, Christianity is 'supposed' to be a Way of Life which in a sense is what a philosophy describes.

'Supposed' maybe but, in reality, like all religions Christianity is a state od mind.

GhanBuriGhan December 5th, 2012 16:32


Drithius December 5th, 2012 18:04

All religions should be grounded more in philosophy than in symbology. But that's a story for another time.

Fluent December 5th, 2012 20:21


Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan (Post 1061174219)

I like this. :)

Korplem December 5th, 2012 23:33

Corwin, I don't think Christianity has any greater claim that God is reaching to man rather than men reaching to God. Gods tend to need too much attention to not be reaching out to their followers. To be sure, we are both biased on this point. Being as deep into Christianity as you are, it is natural that you'd see it as more valid, or special, than other religions. And me being atheist, I see all religions as equally silly.

To your point about defining religion as man reaching for God, that does not make the opposite false. That's like saying that Christmas is about children asking Santa for presents, but is not about Santa giving children presents. Theyre both parts of the same thing.

GBG, thanks for linking to that Oatmeal strip. I got a good chuckle out of it.

Corwin December 5th, 2012 23:37

I thought the interview with a conservative and a liberal was a classic!! :) This should really be posted in our humour thread.

Korplem December 5th, 2012 23:40

Haha, yeah. It's pretty funny for both sides.

Alrik Fassbauer December 6th, 2012 14:42

A German humorist put it like that :

"Religion is when one dies nevertheless/regardless/anyway."

(Original : "Religion ist, wenn man trotzdem stirbt.")

Besides, I once saw an interesting documentation on TV regarding the Christian "Paradise" : It seems to have existed in real at one point in early human history several ten thousands ago : A deep valley in the Ural Mountains, a tiny area with a unique climate … Now the valley is filled with a bigger town. The Paradise is lost forever.

This is why I love Archaeology : Unearthing long lost forgotten secrets … ;)

Lucky Day December 22nd, 2012 04:56

I don't usually get on this topic but I would like to point out that this is a phrase that has been around for awhile, particularly among Pentecostals who at one time took this "not a religion" statement very, very seriously.

Most still say it, like Bill here, even though the meaning has changed and many today aren't even aware it meant a lot more than it once did. The evangelicals I've run into are shocked and sometimes don't believe the extent that was once taken when I tell them.

That's been my experience.

So 100, even 50 years ago, when they said they Weren't a Religion they really meant it. No permanent buildings, no membership rolls to a legal, government registered church, even no robed choirs, and sometimes no musical instruments - particularly organs.

The Azuza Street warehouse in Los Angeles where Pentecostalism first flourished was deliberately torn down and the lot divied up for the express purpose of preventing any sort of pilgrimage to it (the area get's a healthy amount of tourism from it today regardless).

Permanent buildings, robed choirs, etc. exist today in most major Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. There are still storefront churches but they are largely seen as just starting out. Pentecostal churches started registering as legal entity in WWI so they could claim as consciousness objectors, but you would be hard pressed to find any of those early churches that still believe that today.

What it implies is emphasis on the worship services, something that was taken to the extreme with the Latter Rain Movement of the 1960's which is where I think the old definition lead to its end. IMO it was also a statement against the "denominal churches" which many of those folks came out of. The Sunday worship service I believe is a result of this as well as folks would go to their denominal services in the morning and the storefornt church or Tent Revival at night.

That the old definition didn't last in face of the more stable, permanent churches shouldn't be a surprise. It is also largely contended (at least in my Bible Colleges) that the only reason they were against electric organs and robed choirs is because those early churches were small and couldn't afford them :) .

JemyM December 22nd, 2012 10:32

In most fields where it's important to classify whether something is a "religion" or not, the word causes headache. There's a ton of different definitions that includes or excludes major cultural movements that are by some called "religions". It's just one of those words we get away with when we use them in everyday language but it doesn't work as a coherent definition. If you wish to include Buddhism or Confucianism for example you can't demand a God Concept. If you demand a holy man you can't include Hinduism. If you demand an afterlife or the concept of souls you can't include Judaism etc. If you want to call Buddhism and Confucianism religions you can as well call Secular Humanism a religion too. etc.

This is why I reject the concept of "religious freedom", because it gives undeserved power to whoever gets to interpret what movements are religions and what aren't that promotes corruption, providing cover or pooling resources to the interpreters own group.

Some movements always enjoy unregulated or undefined words since they can fill them with their own meaning. So one thing can be called religion one day and not religion another, depending on what there is to gain in the present situation. Some stress that "atheism" is a religion, but if the legal system would buy that, the world would quickly look very different.

Alrik Fassbauer December 22nd, 2012 13:31

Who is Bill O'Reilly anyway ? Is that someone one must know ?

rjshae January 27th, 2013 08:05

Umm… religion is a form of philosophy. Stay tuned for more Fux news.

Ovenall February 22nd, 2013 04:03

Why does anyone listen to oreilly in the first place?

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