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-   -   I love a story with a happy ending. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19126)

xSamhainx January 5th, 2013 20:45

I love a story with a happy ending.
 
Here this predator may have killed this woman and her children, just like what happened to these poor defenseless people:
Man and two daughters found murdered in their home

Or these, When Horror Came to a Connecticut Family


Nope. A handgun saved the day. Instead, the fucker found himself staring down the barrel of her gun. He wont be robbing anyone else, anytime soon. Well, until society releases him from his cage to prey on more innocents until he finally does take a life. Then, maybe they'll get serious.


Cops: Mother of two surprises intruder with five gunshots


What do you think the outcome of this story would have been if she was not armed? Maybe she's beaten to death with a crowbar by the time the police get there? Call it paranoia, call it what you will, but this is reality - these people have a chance to fight back

Oh look, on the same page a link to a story with the opposite result - unarmed woman shot in home invasion, as she tries the "hide from them" approach. She never stood a chance, she's very lucky to still be alive.

I wonder if any of these victims thought, "i could never have a gun in the house, and surely could never use it on someone". I wonder if, as they were faced with this situation, they had a sudden change of heart.

joxer January 5th, 2013 21:20

I don't have a gun in my house.
I surely can and would use a gun if I had it in my house.

You can't possibly believe I would never, if I had a gun, go killing ppl randomly. I bet I can do that and I bet I would do that. In fact I know I would go frenzy with a gun in my hand on some bad hairday just because - I can.

But then again - knowing what would I do with it if I had it is the reason I don't have a gun in my house. All those who have a gun in their house are potential mass murderers and there is no way you can prove me wrong.

Anyone who now feels insulted, hell, I'm not sorry for saying this.
You don't keep a gun in your house just because it's an air and you need to breathe. You keep it to make use of it when the stars get in proper constellation. You need to kill something. You must kill someone. The sooner, the better.

So will you please move your focus from gunless victims on those who had a gun in their house and decided to use it on someone. The problem is the brain of one who has a gun, not the one who doesn't have it.

P.S. I live in a country where it's legal but still publically unacceptable to keep weaponry in our homes. I do understand insisting on weapons at homes of North Korea neighbors, but I don't understand an enormous amount of home-guns in a certain country that isn't N. Korea's neighbor where mass murders happen too often.

xSamhainx January 5th, 2013 21:29

I'm sorry, you sound like a lunatic. I'm glad you dont have a gun.


For us normal people it's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it

joxer January 5th, 2013 21:34

That's true. If you care only for your own butt and don't give a damn about everyone else.

Alrik Fassbauer January 5th, 2013 22:09

There are stories out there of people trying to get rid of robbers via the use of pepper spray - but the robbers took it out of their hands and turned it towards their victims instead …

zahratustra January 5th, 2013 22:23

And, let's not forget, Sandy Hook shooter killed his mother with her own gun.

mudsling3 January 6th, 2013 02:46

Why these positive gun related incidents never get the spot light from MSM? Imagine they would spend half the time as they would cover those few lunatic shooting massacres, the sheeple may have a different attitube towards guns.

Never trust a word of those who never got punched in the face… not sure the utopia these fairies live.

"That's true. If you care only for your own butt and don't give a damn about everyone else." How did you manage to deduce your conclusion?

"There are stories out there of people trying to get rid of robbers via the use of pepper spray - but the robbers took it out of their hands and turned it towards their victims instead … "
Guess you never light a fire in your life in fear of a potential house burn down.

"And, let's not forget, Sandy Hook shooter killed his mother with her own gun."
Are you also advocating to take guns from cops, government troops as well?

Couchpotato January 6th, 2013 03:15

Why are you guys responding to a bait topic. It's designed to start a flame just by the way it's setup.

mudsling3 January 6th, 2013 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061178333)
Why are you guys responding to a bait topic. It's designed to start a flame war just like how the other topicd turn into.

Maybe the paper tiger argument would not withstand the flame? But how it is a "bait" topic vs the other ones? We are not suppose to talk about religions and politics as the "general wisdom" would dictate? What's wrong to construct sound argument by showing actual evidence, to debunk an irrational, fear base conjecture? You maybe in the wrong form topic. couchpotato

Couchpotato January 6th, 2013 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudsling3 (Post 1061178336)
Maybe the paper tiger argument would not withstand the flame? But how it is a "bait" topic vs the other ones? We are not suppose to talk about religions and politics as the "general wisdom" would dictate? What's wrong to construct sound argument by showing actual evidence, to debunk an irrational, fear base conjecture? You maybe in the wrong form topic. couchpotato

No I am not. This is talked about in other topics. Go read the other topics covering this. This is a bait topic pure and simple. He is rubbing the story's on a few posters here who want guns controlled or harsher penalty's for owning one.

JDR13 January 6th, 2013 04:52

Personally, I prefer a massage with a happy ending.

figment January 6th, 2013 07:21

Sorry I have to post on this even though its a troll thread and I'm probably drunk. I'll preface this with the fact that I grew up in Colorado and learned to shoot rifles and handguns in Arvada and killed many paper targets and clay pigeons so I don't have a native distrust of guns and am willing to tolerate some sport and hunting use.

I grew up with friends that went to Columbine though graduated a few years before the event. My aunt lives a couple blocks from the cinema complex in Aurora but was at home that night. My sister and niece go to New Life Church in Colorado Springs where an armed idiot killed a couple people a few years ago and was then wounded by someone from the church (my niece was there that day). It does not really console me that someone else had a gun to fire at the assailant to "stop" him and probably doesn't console the relatives of the dead either.

My sister and her boyfriend probably have 15 guns between them (mostly rifles but several handguns). However that didn't help my sister the day some dude knocked on her door during the day (probably to check if anyone was home before robbing it or similar stupidity) and beat her up pretty badly when she did answer the door (without a gun on her even though there were probably 10 in that house the time). It scares me to think that these incidents could have gone very differently and instead are non-events (except for the last one really wasn't) at least to my immediate family. If my sister did have a gun ready, he very well may have just overpowered her and used it on her but fortunately he just ran off.

If you own a gun, do you always answer your door with a gun ready? My dad will not visit my sister unannounced anymore because he is afraid of having a gun on the other side of the door that is ready just in case. If you hear a bump in the night, is your first reaction to unlock your gun and load it? Hell it should be in a safe and ammo in a separate location so do you even have time to get it and load it if this were an actual event? If its not your first reaction then you probably wont have time to go fetch it when you need to. What happens with that bump is a family member who is sneaking home late at night.

Hell my nephew is now of a curious age and probably has access to these guns though I hope they are properly secured but don't actually know. I knew when I was that age that guns were cool and was probably stupid enough to play with them if we actually had them in the house.

Anyway after these events, I don't know that I support guns for personal protection use anymore. I really have a hard time with guns with large magazines that can fire more than 6 bullets without reloading we don't need them outside of the law enforcement or the military. You are not going hunting with that and you sure aren't likely to need that for a home invasion where 1 bullet is likely more than enough.

I too prefer massage with a happy ending as well.

mudsling3 January 6th, 2013 18:05

Figment, I would drop the bottle if I would hava one percent info on the danger of liquids as you would have suspicision about guns' effectiveness in self-defence. Ironically, perhaps you would laugh your ass off when the MSM blaming availablity of guns for mass shooting knowing guns are good as a door knob even they are just a few feet away. And how did you manage to draw your conclusion about taking all guns(some) away from all people just beacuse some failed to use them effectively? It is like saying Partial differential Equations should be taken out of the curriculum because some people get Fs, and most of those who get As hardly use this knowledge in their works. Just take personal responsibility and stay away from guns for your own good instead of spreading your gospel through the government.

Guns are inanimate objects, in hands of good guys at the right time can stop tragedies from spreading into mass shootings. You expect it would console what you experenced? You are more mentally drunk than you are physical.

figment January 7th, 2013 04:48

I think you are reading my words too literally. I'm willing to allow sport rifles and pistols and probably pump action shotguns but personally don't think its such a good idea for people to own them these days. I don't see a real situation where we could conceivably want to do a full outright ban on all guns anytime soon so I'm willing concede that point. I probably wouldn't support something that drastically outlawed all firearms anyway as that would be a step too far but I think reinstating bans on so called assault rifles isn't such a bad idea.

I have very hard time imagining situations where private citizens in this country need high capacity and high caliber rounds. You are not going to hunting with it at least not if you are going to be responsible. Do we really need to be able to purchase and use and carry machine pistols which can fire 30 bullets in 2 seconds? Or rifles which can do the same? The only place these are likely to be located legitimately is in your house anyway and wouldn't a shotgun or pistol be better for that assuming you have loved ones. I also have a hard time imagining a case where we need to rebel against our government and need these weapons to do it.

In some of the recent shootings if the guns these people had 5 rounds max there would have been a lot of reloading which takes time or switching guns which takes time and retraining their aim which takes time. Time for trained security to respond. There would still be deaths but far few shots and probably more wounded rather than dead. A little wishful thinking perhaps but you have to start somewhere and if that is curbing widespread availability then so be it. In 50 years maybe it will have a marginal effect but we don't need to continue make the problem worse.

Icefire January 7th, 2013 08:27

Oh, for the love of fucking hell. WIll those who keep saying making certain guns, or all guns, illegal will put an end or stop this kind of violence. IT WONT!!! Drugs are illegal. Is drug usage really low?? Murder and robbery are illegal. Crime rates seem to be pretty high still though huh?? The ONLY thing you will succeed in doing, is making those who sell these guns on the black market even richer. Thats all. The people who want these guns bad enough ARE STILL GOING TO GET THEM. Are we clear now? Anybody else have delusions about this still?? The only effective way to fight anything is make those who commit such deeds to be afraid of the consequences. They arent right now. And they shouldnt be. Enough money you can pretty much get away with anything. And who is afraid of prison? Very few. Start getting medieval on these assholes like I said before and you will see a drastic drop. Guaranteed.

Pladio January 7th, 2013 11:32

@Icefire, your first part made sense, then it didn't. You think crime was low when they hooked you up to horses and pulled your limbs apart ? It wasn't. The people who commit crime are not in their right mind when committing the crime. So they do NOT think of the consequences.

However, having lots of guns on the street does increase the chance of there being a gun-related crime. It's simple maths.

From this :
Quote:

The people who want these guns bad enough ARE STILL GOING TO GET THEM.
It is clear that you did not pay into account that it was with a legally owned gun that the recent shooter shot his mom. If she had no gun in the house, it would have required a great deal of effort to find one in comparison.

While not hard, it would still have added an obstacle to the process and at the very least would have reduced the chance of it happening.


Also, nowhere in this post I have advocated for or against more gun control, just against the arguments you have presented in your post. Please do not run a straw man telling me I have said things I haven't.

DArtagnan January 7th, 2013 11:49

It's not about putting an end to crime - but about reducing crime of a particular nature. It's about making a personal sacrifice for the greater good.

Talking about owning a gun as a freedom sounds to me very much like what the slave states talked about a few hundred years ago, when owning a slave was another constitutional freedom.

Back then, they also had to make a personal sacrifice by getting rid of slaves - but of course, they didn't give that up without a fight. At least, back then, they had an argument with some weight - because their economy was very much dependant on slavery.

Today, there really is no argument with similar weight that supports owning a gun. Personal defense? Yeah, but what is personal defense to saving so many lives - as well as significantly reducing personal risk over time? It's a selfish and ignorant point of view. Again, very much like supporting slavery used to be.

GhanBuriGhan January 7th, 2013 11:58

XSamhainX - anecdotes don't prove anything either way regarding a subject that ultimately is about what is more beneficial for society as a whole. Of course there are cases where people have successfully defended themselves using a gun. There are also plenty cases where there was no happy ending (Google "father accidentally killed son / daughter" or something similar). No single such story proves anything either way.

Pladio January 7th, 2013 12:37

GBG - it's Sam, not HiddenX :D

GhanBuriGhan January 7th, 2013 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pladio (Post 1061178440)
GBG - it's Sam, not HiddenX :D

Thanks, corrected. I'm always confusing our x'es :embarrassed:


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