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-   -   Wizardry 7 (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19201)

codename47 January 14th, 2013 10:54

Wizardry 7
 
I want to start playing, but I'm not as familiar with this game as Wizardry 8. I don't know how to properly roll character attributes, what are the good party setups, how to properly configure skills, what skills are essential etc.

At least with Wizardry 8 it was a lot more clear cut, but with Wizardry 7 and 6 especially, I have no idea how to play.

I can't open chests without dying, I don't know anything about the levelling system. The inventory screen or whatever is totally inconsistent.

Reading the manual didn't help a lot.

I've also heard about multiclassing, but how does that work? Do you retain your old attributes, your old skills / spells?

Thank you very much!

PetrusOctavianus January 14th, 2013 13:13

Multiclassing is a double edged sword.
It lets you get more skills than a single class character would, but most of the combat calculations in the game are based on comparing your characters' levels to the enemies' levels.
OTOH there is so much XP in the game that a single class character will max out all skills long before the end game, so multi classing in Wiz 7 (unlike Wiz 6) is "mandatory".
To change class you must meet the minimum stat requirements of the new class. When you switch, your character's stats goes down to the minimum of the class or his race, whichever is higher, but your skills are not changed.
Be very careful about what you switch to, as some class+race combos means you'll be stuck in that class for virtually the rest of the game if certain stats go too low, as it will take "forvever" for them to increase to the point where you can switch class again.

Multiclassing is great for getting the Ninjutsi (Hide) and Khirijutsu (Critical Hit) skills for all your guys.

Bottom line: Wiz 7 is a game where it really pays to be an accountant at heart and juggle all those numbers, and plan the careers of all your characters in advance.
Fortunately, as long as you have at least 1 in a skill you can advance it, even if your current class does not have that skill, which was a change from Wiz 6.
Changing classes is also a good way of getting a quick skill boost, since you will level quickly after switching classes.

Regarding disarming traps, read what the manual says carefully several times. The system is rather unintuitive and takes some getting used to.

codename47 January 14th, 2013 13:34

Ok. That is a lot of help. :)

How should I start out? I don't know how to pick my party members without possibly regretting it.

PetrusOctavianus January 14th, 2013 13:53

I recommend one of your characters be a Fairy, since there is quite a lot of Fairly only equipment. A Fairy Ninja is one of the best characters you can have.

A Bard is extremely useful, since the bard's starting instrument means free Sleep spells.

Another thing to consider is that the mana regeneration rate is set at the start of the game, which means your starting race, class and stats determine how fast they will recover mana for the rest of the game.
I strongly suggest reading this, where all this is explained: http://www.abandonia.com/vbullet/sho…&postcount=236

Lucky Day January 14th, 2013 16:56

I believe a fairy ninja is impossible to achieve in Wiz8 unless you transfer the character over.

Also, in the past Multiclassing in Wizardry was something you could easily exploit IIRC. Changing classes then easily taking out high level baddies gave you a ton of XP to put in that new class, whereas dual-class in AD&D required you to split the XP evenly.

I'm trying to remember if Wizardry is the game to have real "prestige" classes, classes that you could only achieve by excelling first in a base class. I seem to recall it just required certain stats which could be achieved randomly.

PetrusOctavianus January 14th, 2013 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Day (Post 1061179506)
I believe a fairy ninja is impossible to achieve in Wiz8 unless you transfer the character over.

I haven't played Wiz8, but I believe it uses quite a different system from Wiz 6 and 7, and that multiclassing is not important. Fairy Ninjas may not be a good choice in Wiz 8 either, for all I know.

Quote:

Also, in the past Multiclassing in Wizardry was something you could easily exploit IIRC. Changing classes then easily taking out high level baddies gave you a ton of XP to put in that new class, whereas dual-class in AD&D required you to split the XP evenly.
Exploit and exploit…the game seems to have been designed around multi classing. Also in Wiz 7 you get less skill points per level compared to Wiz 6, so it takes much longer to max out the magic skills, which is another thing that favours multi classing in Wiz 7 (in Wiz 6 it wasn't really needed, IMO, unless you weren't able to roll prestige classes at character creation).
In AD&D the multi-class characters split the XP evenly among their classes, while the dual class concentrated on one class at a time.

Quote:

I'm trying to remember if Wizardry is the game to have real "prestige" classes, classes that you could only achieve by excelling first in a base class. I seem to recall it just required certain stats which could be achieved randomly.
It just required high enough stats.

codename47 January 14th, 2013 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Day (Post 1061179506)
I believe a fairy ninja is impossible to achieve in Wiz8 unless you transfer the character over.

Also, in the past Multiclassing in Wizardry was something you could easily exploit IIRC. Changing classes then easily taking out high level baddies gave you a ton of XP to put in that new class, whereas dual-class in AD&D required you to split the XP evenly.

I'm trying to remember if Wizardry is the game to have real "prestige" classes, classes that you could only achieve by excelling first in a base class. I seem to recall it just required certain stats which could be achieved randomly.

You can make any character in Wizardry 8. Even a Faerie Ninja. But it's worth it for one weapon only.

In Wizardry 7, I think it's a running joke that it's impossible for you to roll proper stats for a Faerie Ninja. So I've heard.

dteowner January 14th, 2013 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by codename47 (Post 1061179513)
You can make any character in Wizardry 8. Even a Faerie Ninja. But it's worth it for one weapon only.

Yep, exactly. Well, I suppose you could say it's worth it for being able to brag about running an ironman expert solo faerie ninja to the 5 people in the world that might actually care… ;)

codename47 January 14th, 2013 19:05

oh, dte! I'm glad you showed up. I've been playing my third party (Sam, Valk, Priest, Mage, Bard, Ranger) for a while now and the party is a meat grinder.

But I wanted a different setup for the next game with a Rogue and possibly a Ninja who specializes in throwing. Now, I am not sure how this could work out. I was thinking Valk, Monk, Rogue, Ninja, Bishop, Bishop.

Roq January 29th, 2013 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by codename47 (Post 1061179513)
In Wizardry 7, I think it's a running joke that it's impossible for you to roll proper stats for a Faerie Ninja. So I've heard.

It is possible - but not easy. I seem to remember the weapon is called the "cane of corpus" or something like that - but it's pretty hard to get hold of even if you did roll faerie ninja…

Anyway there is no real need, that kind of min/maxing is obsessional and doesn't really give you a lot. Any sensible party mix works fine in Wiz 7. You gotta have good healing, plus bard is very good. I went for elf bishop/Faerie bard/monk/ranger/lord/liz fighter (from memory). And the party rocked mid to late game - bishops take a bit of time to get powerful. Obviously, fighting classes in the front, casters back.

Lucky Day January 29th, 2013 21:28

that's what it was then - the Faerie Ninja is exclusive for one weapon available only by transferring it from Wiz 7. It wasn't the blade cuisinart was it?

Ah yes, prestige classes were stat based when I finally tested this (like the famous straight 18's Anti-Hero only found in Dungeon magazine). But wasn't there at least one class that required ability stats that couldn't be obtained at level 1?

Fluent January 30th, 2013 02:00

I'd like to get into the older Wizardry and Might and Magic games, but the grid movement kind of scares me away. Makes me think that it would be too hard to figure out the layout of the land or where to go, etc.

Is it difficult to navigate in those games? If it's easy to get used to and navigation isn't too much of a chore I will give them a shot.

DeepO January 30th, 2013 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Day (Post 1061181946)
that's what it was then - the Faerie Ninja is exclusive for one weapon available only by transferring it from Wiz 7. It wasn't the blade cuisinart was it?

The weapon usable by fearie ninja only is the aforementioned cane of corpus and the weapon does not transfer from W7 to W8 (you have to obtain it during W8īs campaign, just as in W7).
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Day (Post 1061181946)
Ah yes, prestige classes were stat based when I finally tested this (like the famous straight 18's Anti-Hero only found in Dungeon magazine). But wasn't there at least one class that required ability stats that couldn't be obtained at level 1?

In W7? No.
Some of the classes or race/class combos are just difficult (well, not difficult, tedious) to get during character creation since you need to get high amount of bonus points, which is randomly generated.
Faerie ninja requires the highest amount and it is really, really improbable to get such a roll, which is why Iīd say itīs better to pick another class for the race and switch to ninja later.
In W8 all race/class combos are readily available during character generation since thereīs no rolling involved.

Roq January 30th, 2013 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluent (Post 1061181981)
I'd like to get into the older Wizardry and Might and Magic games, but the grid movement kind of scares me away. Makes me think that it would be too hard to figure out the layout of the land or where to go, etc.

Is it difficult to navigate in those games? If it's easy to get used to and navigation isn't too much of a chore I will give them a shot.

No it's not hard to navigate. Only problem is that Wizardry 6 and earlier didn't have an automap, which does make it hard. The Wiz 7 gold version does have an automap, of sorts. I have to say that the interface would probably take a bit of getting used to, for those only familiar with modern games.

Fluent January 30th, 2013 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roq (Post 1061181983)
No it's not hard to navigate. Only problem is that Wizardry 6 and earlier didn't have an automap, which does make it hard. The Wiz 7 gold version does have an automap, of sorts. I have to say that the interface would probably take a bit of getting used to, for those only familiar with modern games.

Thanks. I will consider giving them a shot. Wizardry 7 especially looks interesting.

JDR13 January 30th, 2013 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluent (Post 1061181984)
Thanks. I will consider giving them a shot. Wizardry 7 especially looks interesting.

The M&M games have aged better than the Wizardry series imo. With the exception of Wizardry 8, which is far more recent than the other titles, the Wizardry games can be tough to get into without the nostalgia of having played them years ago.

Wizardry 8 is fantastic though.

GothicGothicness January 30th, 2013 11:16

Wiz 7 gold… if you can stand the bugs.. are much more modern…

Gorath January 30th, 2013 13:25

Ah, Wizardry 7 Gold.

I hated it.

Two steps forward … random encounter, whole party killed by a bunch of grasshoppers, reload, try again, success, two steps forward, random encounter … repeat.

Exactly the kind of game I don't like.

The M&Ms were easier to get into, but so wide open that it was sometimes hard to focus. M&M 6 + 7 didn't really flash me, but at least I can understand how one can have fun with them. Apart from the fugly graphics, of course.

EvilManagedCare January 30th, 2013 14:33

Loved Wiz 7. Unfortunately I somehow broke one of the quests that made it unfinishable. It was late in the game, so I never restarted.

sherwinz28 January 30th, 2013 19:21

I finished my first Wiz8 game with a full party. Came back and replayed with a 4 man party with multiclassing. The last run I did was solo fairy ninja(not Iron Man). Extremely difficult in the beginning. A breeze towards the end once you have cane of corpus. I've tried to play Wizardry 7 a few times but that games is fairly long and drawn out. If there was a way to speed up combat and other parts it might be easier. Once I finish my re-run of Might and Magic 2 I'll try it again. I am running this game on an emulator as playing the original is also slow. The emulator allows me to double the speed of the game.


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