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-   -   Cryptic's Neverwinter D&D MMO (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19219)

joxer January 15th, 2013 19:17

Cryptic's Neverwinter D&D MMO
 
http://nw.perfectworld.com/

Closed beta is starting soon.
Yes, I have the beta key and I'll check the beta as soon as it's available.

Do I expect much from it? No.

Why am I not so thrilled about D&D game? Because it's Cryptic's baby.
They turned STO into online Las Vegas gambling machine instead of a game. And instead of giving a player some real Star Trek experience, the game is just a lousy roulette. I'm afraid Cryptic's D&D game will be full of boxes with random item rewards you need to pay for with real cash and probably dozens of pay-2-win items.

In any case, I'll return with more news when the testing starts. The game will be f(raud)2p.

Alrik Fassbauer January 15th, 2013 19:26

Well, I had played it a bit on the Games Com, and I found at last that part nice.
But - of course it was only a five-minutes-mission at the early beginning …

joxer January 15th, 2013 19:36

I bet there will be some fun content inside, hell in every MMO there is.
Since it's closed beta, I won't be able to talk much about content details (terms&conditions), but that doesn't mean I won't say that the ruleset rocks here or perhaps sucks. Or that areas are awsome, or retarded. Etc.

What I don't want to see are boxes you can buy for real cash, you can sell via ingame market for ingame currency and that drop instead of real items - y'know, I'll overspam PWE forums with disgust if I find out that the STO scandal got repeated in this D&D game.
Seriously, I can't believe no country's laws didn't address f2p model and apply at least 50% taxes on money they cash in from players conned into playing "for free".

If anyone's interested into closed beta key, I'd suggest patience, there will be key giveaways for sure, and not crappy ones like some do by forcing ppl to register on Facebook and hit Like on their lousy game or company.

azarhal January 15th, 2013 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061179726)
What I don't want to see are boxes you can buy for real cash, you can sell via ingame market for ingame currency and that drop instead of real items - y'know, I'll overspam PWE forums with disgust if I find out that the STO scandal got repeated in this D&D game.
Seriously, I can't believe no country's laws didn't address f2p model and apply at least 50% taxes on money they cash in from players conned into playing "for free".

It's not conning. Nobody is lied about what is going to happen with the RNG chests (they are clearly labelled as giving random content) and nobody is forced to open or buy them to play the game. People are just freaking morons when they buy them with real cash and expect to be rewarded each time with awesome loot.

I played countless MMOs with those and I never bought one in my life or bough a key to open one. Never impacted my gameplay.

joxer January 15th, 2013 20:19

Nobody is forced into anything in any con so you may drop the "forcing" out.

Ppl are not morons. Ppl don't buy boxes to open with real cash - they buy keys needed to open those boxes and sell those keys on ingame market to get rich ingame. And once you get rich in the game, well… While boxes drop in the game and fill your limited inventory, keys needed to open them can't be obtained that way but only by buying them from Cryptic's (PWE's in fact) ingame store. Or by buying them from hotel owners who bought those for real cash and put on the market for several hundred K of ingame currency.

Also, random content you say? Not true. Each box, among other possible stuff to drop out, contains 1-5 so called lobi crystals. Once you gather 200 or more of those, you may buy one of pay2win items in so called Ferengi lobi store (and that definetly doesn't exist in Star Trek setting). Oh, should I mention that lobi crystals can't be sold on the ingame market? Of course they can't, buy keys, open boxes, do spend thousands of real $! Such a great game! Free game!

If you'll play only PvE and not PvP, those lobi store pay2win items are not necessary. But does everyone play MMOs only for PvE content?

It's all conning. And STO game is one huge fraud. f2p model they made there is a fraud. There are many f2p models out there, so far the one in STO is the worst one and the most fradulent I've seen in my life.

redman5427 January 15th, 2013 20:59

Hey Joxer, did you just happen to get an e-mail with a key in it? I went to the website and logged in but it just said to monitor my e-mail for a key, which I still don't have. I think I registered for the beta over a year ago or whenever sign-ups occurred.
Don't know how good it will be but I am kinda looking forward to the user created content.

azarhal January 15th, 2013 21:43

@redman
They have not sent beta keys yet. joxer probably got one from PCGamer magazine?

Alpha is starting this week, but beta is still a bit off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061179741)
Nobody is forced into anything in any con so you may drop the "forcing" out.

Ppl are not morons. Ppl don't buy boxes to open with real cash - they buy keys needed to open those boxes and sell those keys on ingame market to get rich ingame. And once you get rich in the game, well… While boxes drop in the game and fill your limited inventory, keys needed to open them can't be obtained that way but only by buying them from Cryptic's (PWE's in fact) ingame store. Or by buying them from hotel owners who bought those for real cash and put on the market for several hundred K of ingame currency.

Also, random content you say? Not true. Each box, among other possible stuff to drop out, contains 1-5 so called lobi crystals. Once you gather 200 or more of those, you may buy one of pay2win items in so called Ferengi lobi store (and that definetly doesn't exist in Star Trek setting). Oh, should I mention that lobi crystals can't be sold on the ingame market? Of course they can't, buy keys, open boxes, do spend thousands of real $! Such a great game! Free game!

If you'll play only PvE and not PvP, those lobi store pay2win items are not necessary. But does everyone play MMOs only for PvE content?

It's all conning. And STO game is one huge fraud. f2p model they made there is a fraud. There are many f2p models out there, so far the one in STO is the worst one and the most fradulent I've seen in my life.

People are forced out of their money (or other things) with a con joxer. The point of a con system is to take other people money without them knowing it until it is too late. PWE isn't hiding how their system work, what you are paying for (or getting for free) and how people can gain/lose from it. It's not a con system. It's not balanced and favor specific players.

Let me tell you a secret, the faster you realize that online gaming is not a competition, the sooner you will feel better about yourself, start to enjoy F2P games without spending money on them and feel a lot less like a raging teenager.

If you want to talk about fraud, look at SWTOR, where none-subscribers have no customer support when their real money store purchase fail. That was the most stupid idea EA ever had.

As for Neverwinter, I expect similar RNG chests, because they are the norm in F2P games now (and some P2P too), but for me it's the player generate content that attract me.

Lucky Day January 15th, 2013 22:34

Dropboxes are tantamount to online gambling and its become such a problem in Japan that they are finally starting to look at it, at least in one case. I wish something would be done about it in NA soon.

The only thing I see over DDO is the "Forge" tool but it will not allow anything but XP and gold drops. Custom items will be given away, and worse, its a single server system. Builders can't make their own unique worlds.

joxer January 16th, 2013 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5427 (Post 1061179747)
Hey Joxer, did you just happen to get an e-mail with a key in it? I went to the website and logged in but it just said to monitor my e-mail for a key, which I still don't have. I think I registered for the beta over a year ago or whenever sign-ups occurred.
Don't know how good it will be but I am kinda looking forward to the user created content.

My key is brought with PC gamer magazine. I can post you a link printed in the magazine, however when you go there, you have to answer a random question correctly to receive a key. I mean… You have to browse the magazine to find an answer (in my case the question was "what year…" and the hint was "page 51", if you don't have the magazine how would you find an answer?).
One thing… It's US version of the magazine, I'm not sure you can get the code from UK or any other version. :(

Also I didn't have to register a new acc on PWE because, as I've said, I'm STO player. Well… Was.

EDIT:
Wait a minute… We can "cheat". You can read me the question you get and I can provide an answer then. But… Would that be legal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061179758)
Let me tell you a secret, the faster you realize that online gaming is not a competition, the sooner you will feel better about yourself, start to enjoy F2P games without spending money on them and feel a lot less like a raging teenager.

Actually in case of League of Legends, it's a competition, it's f2p model, and you don't have to spend $473856387658364 to get something of value nor you can buy your victory with cash. There are things you can buy only with real money there, but those are only skins. With ingame "currency" you can unlock everything except those skins that only make your hero and his abilities/moves look different.
But the game was so damned good (when I had enough time to play it) that I put some money in the game to buy a few skins and never spent all of ingame "credits" (riot points), I simply felt it's fair to support those devs.

There are raging teenagers in every MMO community, I tend to ignore them or simply put them on ignorelist. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061179758)
If you want to talk about fraud, look at SWTOR, where none-subscribers have no customer support when their real money store purchase fail. That was the most stupid idea EA ever had.

OMG. It's definetly a fraud. Idea or not, again, there is no law that could prevent such business model. Yet. Just wait till countries find out how many cash is being transactioned taxfree. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal (Post 1061179758)
As for Neverwinter, I expect similar RNG chests, because they are the norm in F2P games now (and some P2P too), but for me it's the player generate content that attract me.

Did I mention the game LoL? No gambling in it. No random loot boxes. To win something there, you need a skill.
It's not the only game like that. There is a fun game Wizard101. It's basically f2p, but to unlock more areas you need to pay. And although you're paying for more content in it, there are no gambling boxes to buy for real cash and you still have to be skilled to win both PvE and PvP. And the game is so fun, especially if you're playing it with a friend or two, that you simply have to support those devs by unlocking areas even if you don't care for those.
Etc etc.

I mean… There are many f2p models, and not every single one feels like a fraud. In the case of Cryptic's STO, the model inside it is an obvious fraud.

One more thing to add here. While not every computer f2p model is a fraud, all f2p models on smartphones… Every single one is a fraud. Every single one.
All of them allow your kid to buy something expensive for real cash in some ingame store without you noticing. Till the next bill. That's the main reason I'm not supporting kickstarter projects for smartphones. I'll start supporting them when having an ingame store becomes illegal/unwanted.

azarhal January 17th, 2013 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061179946)
My key is brought with PC gamer magazine. I can post you a link printed in the magazine, however when you go there, you have to answer a random question correctly to receive a key. I mean… You have to browse the magazine to find an answer (in my case the question was "what year…" and the hint was "page 51", if you don't have the magazine how would you find an answer?).
One thing… It's US version of the magazine, I'm not sure you can get the code from UK or any other version. :(

Also I didn't have to register a new acc on PWE because, as I've said, I'm STO player. Well… Was.

EDIT:
Wait a minute… We can "cheat". You can read me the question you get and I can provide an answer then. But… Would that be legal?

You can "cheat" with the PCGamer Google play 2 week digital trial version or pay $2 for a single month sub to it (if you can't use the trial anymore). Although, I had to retry lots of times to get an answers working (or it worked once I set the country to US and not Canada).

joxer January 17th, 2013 18:04

The country field shouldn't matter as PC gamer is distributed worldwide and I didn't put US but my own country.

I've just visited PC gamer forum, a few members there say they've had some similar issues, in fact the site repeated that the correct answer on a question is incorrect till they've refreshed and answered another question… Something like that.

I didn't have any issues however. Perhaps it's a browser problem, I'm using Firefox if that matters.

azarhal January 17th, 2013 18:10

I tried with both Firefox and Chrome. At first I just tried to re-enter the answer different ways, but ended up reloading to get a new question (like 10 times). It's possible setting the country to US and not Canada was just a coincidence…

joxer January 17th, 2013 18:16

In that case the problem is on the site itself. Bloody PC gamer… Although I should be quiet as it's a rare magazine that doesn't annoy ppl with consoles and smartphones.
And after all it's possible to get the key after a retry or a few… ;)

But it's such a shame their game scores depend on the money they receive from a publisher. :evil grin:

SirJames January 17th, 2013 22:02

Joxer, can I have your key please? The way you're carrying on it seems like its being wasted on you big time. This is one of my most wanted games.

I've been hanging out for a good 4E computer game since I first heard the rules existed. (queue DND nostalgia rant about gold box says in Curse, DKOK, etc, to show where I'm coming from.)

I too have my doubts, and I'll get to those, but first…

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061179741)
It's all conning. And STO game is one huge fraud. f2p model they made there is a fraud. There are many f2p models out there, so far the one in STO is the worst one and the most fradulent I've seen in my life.

I played a federation tactics and klingon engineer to max level and had their ships decked out in the best gear and NEVER saw need to go anywhere near the item mall. No content was locked out from me, unlike the awful free version of DDO, but a few alternate ship configurations you don't need at all. I remember STO as the best F2P business model. (and DDO as PAINFUL until you VIP subscribe)

Anyway, back to DND…

I've been making a list of reasons why Neverwinter looks like it might suck. I was hoping to get to 10 legit reasons before I made an official post, but since I'm here defending the games massive potential:

7 Deadly Signs neverwinter will suck! (see what I did there?)

1. Huge damage numbers (cant even work out how these are possible in 4E)

2. Level cap 60 (4E is 30. What kinda filler crap will extend this)

3. Reworked skills not actually DND rules any more

4. Action combat but no talk about why this won't be bad for high pings

5. Active blocking isnt in DND

6. Not dark enough. Copying wow can also be a bad thing. Copying Dark Souls is what people should aim for.

7. Classes seem like templates. I want my Fighter to be a guardian fighter because of the moves I pick, not the (template) class.

joxer January 17th, 2013 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJames (Post 1061180065)
Joxer, can I have your key please? The way you're carrying on it seems like its being wasted on you big time. This is one of my most wanted games.

No, you can't.
See… While you think beta should be tested only by #1 fan, IMO it should be tested by ppl who were bitten by a snake and now are cautious even when they see a common lizzard. :)

As for DDO model, I really don't think it's bad. Was bad… As I haven't enjoyed it in years.
STO I've played a few months ago and Cryptic's model was the most impressive con job I've seen since I was born. Played… Not enjoyed. :)

Now what's the major difference between you and me…
You want to test only the new D&D. I want to see that too, but also if the game is fraud2play and/or pay2win. So it shouldn't be surprising if you hear from me that d&d was awsome, but the paying model sucks, or that d&d is rubbish, but the new paying model is a step forward. Or that both d&d and paying model sucks.

Both great? Now… Sorry, but that ain't possible. If it was possible, then we'd have WoW killer game for real.

Thrasher January 17th, 2013 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061179726)
Since it's closed beta, I won't be able to talk much about content details (terms&conditions), but that doesn't mean I won't say that the ruleset rocks here or perhaps sucks. Or that areas are awsome, or retarded. Etc.

Damn! ;)

azarhal January 18th, 2013 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJames (Post 1061180065)
I've been making a list of reasons why Neverwinter looks like it might suck. I was hoping to get to 10 legit reasons before I made an official post, but since I'm here defending the games massive potential:

7 Deadly Signs neverwinter will suck! (see what I did there?)

1. Huge damage numbers (cant even work out how these are possible in 4E)

2. Level cap 60 (4E is 30. What kinda filler crap will extend this)

3. Reworked skills not actually DND rules any more

4. Action combat but no talk about why this won't be bad for high pings

5. Active blocking isnt in DND

6. Not dark enough. Copying wow can also be a bad thing. Copying Dark Souls is what people should aim for.

7. Classes seem like templates. I want my Fighter to be a guardian fighter because of the moves I pick, not the (template) class.

I'm going to amuse myself answering this. ;)

1. Already seen in screenshots and videos! But I have not idea how 4e is in this regard. I know that people are saying you are fighting gods at level 20+…

2. Level 60 include paragons(/epic) tiers. Interview:
Quote:

MMORPG: There are 60 levels, equaling the 20 levels in normal D&D campaigns. How will players choose and customize their character builds while leveling say, a Trickster Rogue?

Andy Velasquez: Actually, D&D characters can progress up to 30th level. The first 20 levels are the Heroic and Paragon tiers, while levels 21 thru 30 represent the Epic tier and thatís when characters start getting into world bending levels of powers.

Nerd rant aside; the 60 levels that we will have at launch do represent the characters rise through the Paragon tier. Which means at a certain point in their career, players will choose a Paragon Path which will further specialize their character.

The full details of class progression and our paragon paths is another fun topic that we will be sharing more about in the coming months.
3. What I have seen so far seems to follow 4e daily and per encounter powers a lot. Also, I always called 4e "a MMO on paper", but that is only after a theoretical study of the rules.

4. Works quite well in GW2 right now…but I don't get high pings.

5. That one is a wee bit strange, but it goes with 4 I guess.

6. -

7. They are following 4e with this, the PHB offers builds and Cryptic are implementing those into the game. Indeed, they are not the one who came up with Great Weapon Fighter. Although, I'm not sure if they force you to pick a build or not, because they said there was only 4 (5) classes: Fighter, Mage, Rogue, Cleric (, Ranger). But right now they showed 2 Fighters, 1 Mage and 1 Rogue.

redman5427 January 18th, 2013 14:42

Quote:

I can post you a link printed in the magazine
Please do!

redman5427 January 18th, 2013 15:47

I have a key from the magazine now, when does this event kick off?

azarhal January 18th, 2013 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5427 (Post 1061180160)
I have a key from the magazine now, when does this event kick off?

They haven't announced it yet. The key distribution last until the end of the month though. So somewhere in Feb or March (depending how long the alpha that start soon last).


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