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-   -   Iphone RPGs with depth? (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19870)

dafool4u March 27th, 2013 22:15

Iphone RPGs with depth?
 
I'm wondering if anyone knows of good iphone rpgs out there that are reminiscent of Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age—with romanceable npcs (in-party or out of party, doesn't matter) and good writing and storyline.

Fnord March 27th, 2013 23:56

I don't know of any deep CRPGs with romanceable NPCs for Iphone, but if "good & deep" is enough for you, check out Avernum: Escape from the Pit & Avadon: The Black Fortress.

fadedc March 28th, 2013 01:14

Unfortunately Avadon is only available for the Ipad, and he asked about Iphone RPGs.

Sadly, as much as I'm a huge fan of IOS games, RPGs have never been their strong suit. I can't think of a single RPG that I'd recomend that fits your description. The only RPGs I've ever really enjoyed there have been more puzzle or strategy games with PRG elements.

txa1265 March 28th, 2013 03:46

… Or dungeon crawlers. There are some planned, including the one from Ossian studios, but no clue when they will all surface.

DArtagnan March 28th, 2013 09:53

I'm stilling waiting for an RPG with depth that isn't a clone of something from the ancient past.

It's no secret that I don't think much of the platform when it comes to satisfying gaming - but I honestly don't think it's the platform so much as the business model.

Why would you spend 2-5 years on a deep and satisfying RPG, when you can spend 3-9 months doing something half-assed with a measure of old-school appeal and still sell it at the expected price point?

If it's ever going to happen - I think it will be very, very rare indeed. The entire audience mindset would have to change completely.

I've seen a few clones of meaty ancient games do well - but that's because the process of taking existing games and porting them is much more doable than developing them from scratch. Baldur's Gate is the most obvious example - but there are others, like some of the Final Fantasy games.

Thaurin March 28th, 2013 11:29

People do still praise games like The Quest, if you like open-world RPGs. There are a few really good ports of action RPGs, like Bastion and Bard's Tale, but as said, strategy with RPG elements is doing much better on the device with stuf like Clash of Heroes, Ravenmark, Great Big War Game, Squids, etc.

Console-style RPGs, strategy, adventures, sure. Deep CRPGs? Not so much.

DArtagnan March 28th, 2013 11:43

I've yet to play a strategy game that even approaches a good and deep PC strategy game like Civilization or Europa Universalis.

For tactical/strategy, I think the best I've played is that X-Com clone - which is great for obvious reasons. Sadly, the touch-based interface sucks - as it tends to do.

I made it a point to get all the best games of my favorite genres - and I got that highly praised Cthulhu game and Hunters 2 - both of which are supposed the be the best examples of the genre. Sadly, they're jokes compared to PC games of the same genre.

I do like that MoO clone Orion - even if it's significantly inferior to Master of Orion 2 from 17 years ago. But it's close enough to work if you're into the genre.

Old-school adventure games, however, work quite well on the platform - and they're easy to port - so we're seeing a lot of those.

Thaurin March 28th, 2013 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061190290)
I've yet to play a strategy game that even approaches a good and deep PC strategy game like Civilization or Europa Universalis.

Yes, but can you bring your PC with you in your pocket? ;) Mobile games don't have to measure up to full A+ PC games, in my opinion. I never could manage to play on a phone or tablet for hours on end. But it sure doesn't mean you can't have fun! Besides, there are plenty of smaller games on PC that people enjoy, too.

Quote:

For tactical/strategy, I think the best I've played is that X-Com clone - which is great for obvious reasons. Sadly, the touch-based interface sucks - as it tends to do.
For that matter, they're gonna port the full X-Com game that recently came out to iOS.

Quote:

I made it a point to get all the best games of my favorite genres - and I got that highly praised Cthulhu game and Hunters 2 - both of which are supposed the be the best examples of the genre. Sadly, they're jokes compared to PC games of the same genre.
Best in the genre? Well, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I still wouldn't compare any of those games to PC games, but judge them on their own merits. Unless they are straight ports, of course. But the experience will always be different.

Quote:

Old-school adventure games, however, work quite well on the platform - and they're easy to port - so we're seeing a lot of those.
Agreed. I decided not to include those in my list since they stray from the RPG genre that was asked for too much. But there have been some excellent ports and also original point-and-click adventure games on iOS.

DArtagnan March 28th, 2013 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaurin (Post 1061190343)
Yes, but can you bring your PC with you in your pocket? ;) Mobile games don't have to measure up to full A+ PC games, in my opinion. I never could manage to play on a phone or tablet for hours on end. But it sure doesn't mean you can't have fun! Besides, there are plenty of smaller games on PC that people enjoy, too.

I don't remember claiming that you can have a PC in your pocket. My point is, simply, that the platform isn't very good if you're into deep and meaty games. I don't change my demands for mental challenge and engagement because I'm on the road - so it doesn't really help me to know that I can have it in my pocket. But that's me.

Quote:

For that matter, they're gonna port the full X-Com game that recently came out to iOS.
Yeah, I know - but I don't think it's anywhere near as good as the old X-Com.

Quote:

Best in the genre? Well, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I still wouldn't compare any of those games to PC games, but judge them on their own merits. Unless they are straight ports, of course. But the experience will always be different.
I do judge them on their own merits - and they're hugely inferior to good PC games of the same genre. I'm 100% platform neutral and I have no love for PC as a platform.

Thaurin March 28th, 2013 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061190363)
I don't change my demands for mental challenge and engagement because I'm on the road - so it doesn't really help me to know that I can have it in my pocket. But that's me.

So you demand that every game that you ever play to provide a certain level of mental challenge? Weird. And exhausting. But that's just me.

Maybe you should just switch to solving complicated math problems. :)

Quote:

I do judge them on their own merits - and they're hugely inferior to good PC games of the same genre. I'm 100% platform neutral and I have no love for PC as a platform.
I would sooner almost put them in their own genre since they provide a different kind of fun and experience. But I guess you also don't like simpler games on other platforms.

DArtagnan March 28th, 2013 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaurin (Post 1061190376)
So you demand that every game that you ever play to provide a certain level of mental challenge? Weird. And exhausting. But that's just me.

Maybe you should just switch to solving complicated math problems. :)

No, I just want genres I play for mental challenge and engagement to be mentally challenging and engaging. Engagement is probably not the best word. It's more about being immersed and intrigued at the same time. I don't get intrigued by shallow game design or mechanics.

I don't find math problems entertaining or engaging in the least.

Quote:

I would sooner almost put them in their own genre since they provide a different kind of fun and experience. But I guess you also don't like simpler games on other platforms.
No, I'm generally not a fan of simple games. They do have their place - I suppose. If you've got 10 minutes to kill waiting for something. But I would never choose an RPG or a supposedly deep strategy game for that. I'd be fine with Solitaire or whatever.

fadedc March 28th, 2013 20:52

The key with IOS games is that you just have to accept that they are designed to be entertaining for a much shorter period of time then a PC game is. This will also generally mean they are much simpler and less deep then a PC game. However a well designed game will still use what they have to work with to create a game that is very engaging and challenging for the time it is played. But they would almost almost never be games that you would be happy to pay $20-$60 for on a PC.

Ultimately it's just a very different medium and a very different style of game. It's like watching a half hour tv show vs. watching a 3 hour movie.

DArtagnan March 28th, 2013 21:06

Except I can enjoy a half hour TV show and a 3 hour movie. I can't enjoy a shallow game for any amount of time - and I don't really care about the costs involved.

If they made a deep and engaging RPG for iOS - I'd gladly pay full price for it. I can't compartmentalize my preferences and set aside what I want to spend my time doing because I have a gadget that can't provide what I require.

Then again, I use my iPad primarily for surfing and reading - which is why I bought it in the first place - so it's all good.

I was curious about the games and at first I was kinda excited at the possibilities - but now I see how invariably weak the combination of that business model and that platform really is - and I've concluded that gaming on an iPad isn't something I want to do. At least, not as it is now.

For people who don't have similar demands and are fine with shallow versions of their favorite genres - I say knock yourselves out!

fadedc March 28th, 2013 21:13

So yeah IOS games aren't for you, just like some people don't like to watch tv shows. It all boils down to personal preferences and what types of things you personally consider superior or inferior.

DArtagnan March 28th, 2013 21:25

I can go along with that :)

CrazyIrish March 28th, 2013 22:04

I hate to agree with Dart on anything (:)), but yeah. Everything I've taken a risk and purchased has left me thinking "This would be a lot cooler if they had bothered to flesh out this, and this, and that."

Are the development tools a hindrance? Or is it just the interface? I refuse to believe no one is interested in developing something more hardcore. Especially considering how huge the indie scene has gotten for the PC.

What do say Dart? You wanna do a kickstarter? I bet we could get 20-30 grand easy just on the promise of a "real ipad rpg". Of course we would have to find someone to code it, but thats just semantics.

DArtagnan March 28th, 2013 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyIrish (Post 1061190419)
I hate to agree with Dart on anything (:)), but yeah. Everything I've taken a risk and purchased has left me thinking "This would be a lot cooler if they had bothered to flesh out this, and this, and that."

Are the development tools a hindrance? Or is it just the interface? I refuse to believe no one is interested in developing something more hardcore. Especially considering how huge the indie scene has gotten for the PC.

What do say Dart? You wanna do a kickstarter? I bet we could get 20-30 grand easy just on the promise of a "real ipad rpg". Of course we would have to find someone to code it, but thats just semantics.

I can code it :)

But you're touching upon the very reason it's not happening. People get hooked on the promise of a reasonable return with minimal effort and they all want to start out making that "unique" little Tower Defense variation - or so it seems.

Again, if people really wanted to invest themselves for several years - they wouldn't want to sell it for peanuts on an inferior platform.

The business model and the market standard is actively preventing developers from bothering to go deeper.

However, I think the market is already being saturated to such a degree that it takes something REALLY special to stand out.

It won't be long before you HAVE to do something deep to set yourself apart. It's bound to happen one of these days (but remember we need at least 2 years of development time) - and then a new market will open up for a while.

It will be at that point where we might start getting at the truth about the platform viability for deep and meaty RPGs.

Are they possible? Definitely.

Can they truly compete with a deep and meaty RPG done on the PC? Not really.

CrazyIrish March 29th, 2013 00:32

Yeah, you're pretty much spot on. I can keep hoping though.

txa1265 March 29th, 2013 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061190428)
The business model and the market standard is actively preventing developers from bothering to go deeper.

However, I think the market is already being saturated to such a degree that it takes something REALLY special to stand out.

Totally agree.

But at the same time, now that I have an iPhone (and still the Galaxy S3) and can play games on both iPad and iPhone, there is a *world* of difference between the two. Something like Ravenmark on the iPad is a wonderful strategy game that has solid scope on the iPad.

I am hoping Ossian's 'Shadow Sun' does something interesting, as I loved their NWN and NWN2 stuff.

fadedc March 29th, 2013 02:35

Yeah there appear to be major differences between what the Ipad and the Iphone are capable of. The original poster was asking about the Iphone, and I doubt that it would be a viable platform to create a deep RPG on, due to both technical and interface limitations. The Ipad on the other hand would probably be a great RPG platform, and certainly Avadon and Avernum were ported there quite succesfully.

Any good RPG for the IPad though is unlikely to be Ipad exclusive. Your much more likely to see games like Avadon that were succesful on the PC and ported to the Ipad, then anything developed exclusively for Ipad.


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