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-   -   RPGWatch Feature - Nehrim Retrospective (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22052)

Couchpotato October 5th, 2013 04:20

RPGWatch Feature - Nehrim Retrospective
 
Fluent has taken his time to write and submit a new article were he takes a look at one of the best mods for Oblivion called Nehrim. Check back on Monday were he interviews the team about their upcoming mod for Skyrim called Enderal - The Shards of Order.

Quote:

When one thinks of Elder Scrolls games, a few things come to mind. At its core, a typical TES game provides an interesting world to explore, with lots of questing, looting, fighting and lore along the way. When you take those core attributes, use the same engine that was used in TES IV: Oblivion, and completely rework the game like the team at SureAI did, you are left with something that has to be played to be believed. Nehrim presents something entirely independent from the Elder Scrolls universe, yet is constructed from the same building blocks as Bethesda's monster RPG title.

More information.

Couchpotato October 5th, 2013 04:20

Great article Fluent everyone should give Nehrim a try. It's the mod that made me finally play Oblivion once again. Sure it has flaws but I found it better than Oblivion's vanilla campaign.

Eliot69 October 5th, 2013 04:37

Wasnt this mod only in German? I remember wanting to try it, but since I don't understand German I didnt bother. Is there now an English version?

Couchpotato October 5th, 2013 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eliot69 (Post 1061221033)
Wasnt this mod only in German? I remember wanting to try it, but since I don't understand German I didnt bother. Is there now an English version?

The audio is in German but everything else has been translated into English.

Eliot69 October 5th, 2013 04:44

Wow, I need to try this then. Thanks !

Kordanor October 5th, 2013 04:48

Fluent mentioned in the end: "Some books are left in German, and some of the quest text is very poorly translated, but thankfully these things aren't the norm."
So yes, there is an english version. How was the voice acting btw? It was very professionally done in the german version.

For me one of the biggest deals was the skill system.
Oblivion had the worst skill system I saw in all the games I have played so far. They managed to not only make it un-intuitive but even anti-intuitive where the thing you naturally think is the best, is the worst for your character.
Nehrim fixes this issue and replaces it by a decent system.

What I also liked in Nehrim is the exploration. It feels much more rewarding. Less repetitive dungeons and you find these letter-objects which reward extra xp and these plants which increase weight you can carry. So if you see a little hut standing in the wilderness, chances are high that you are rewarded for exploring it. It's just a tiny thing but as Fluent wrote in the review: "So with all this said, what makes Nehrim *that* good is the fact that it really is larger than the sum of its parts."

Edit: didn't see the last 2 postings ;)

HiddenX October 5th, 2013 10:04

Fluent - thank you for the article - it reminds me that I have to replay Nehrim :)

Pessimeister October 5th, 2013 10:25

I have played it, thank you very much. ;) (With regards to the opening line)

Additionally, I'd have compared the learning points system to that of the Gothic series a little more (it is conceptually quite alien to the vanilla Elder Scrolls level-up system) and also made greater reference to the nature of the opening starting dungeon.

Nonetheless, a reasonably good piece of writing that tries to capture the essence of the Nehrim overhaul experience. Good job.

JonNik October 5th, 2013 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiddenX (Post 1061221048)
Fluent - thank you for the article - it reminds me that I have to replay Nehrim :)

Ditto. I have started it and seen what the people praising it were about, but somehow never went too far with it.

Gotta get it installed again… After Dark Souls releases its hooks from me that is… :)

abharsair October 5th, 2013 11:26

Great article and I totally agree with it.

tomasp3n October 5th, 2013 12:12

If this team releases a mod for Skyrim I'll finally have a reason to "replay" it. Properly tweaked Skyrim could be simply amazing (I know that for some of you it already is, but I never felt that way). Make me fear Dragons instead of running them down, and remove the level scaling. THEN I'll gladly play, if they also throw in a new story in a more varied environment I'll be even more happy.

Sacred_Path October 5th, 2013 16:52

I'm playing through Oblivion for the first time without mods and having a blast. A lot of the balancing problems of Morrowind have been adressed, and it's not yet the simplified herp derp system of character progression that Skyrim has. Also, let's face it, the traditional high fantasy setting with its standard art assets lends itself much better to modding.

tomasp3n October 5th, 2013 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path (Post 1061221069)
I'm playing through Oblivion for the first time without mods and having a blast. A lot of the balancing problems of Morrowind have been adressed, and it's not yet the simplified herp derp system of character progression that Skyrim has. Also, let's face it, the traditional high fantasy setting with its standard art assets lends itself much better to modding.

I enjoyed my first time in Vanilla Obilivion up until the point where every single bandit has Glass Armor…level scaling FTW. Or not. Then I just hurried through to finish the game, never to revisit it unmodded again. I never felt that way in Morrowind, had a blast the entire time the last time I did a complete run with the expansions, without mods. Balance issues? Well, yeah maybe, it gets kind of wacky when your jumping all over the place. But it's alot of fun.

I don't know if level scaling is in Morrowwind, if it is it's alot less obvious than in Oblivion or Skyrim. It totally kills my experience in the vanilla versions of those two (Skyrim actually does a pretty good job of keeping it a secret, but I would prefer it if it wasn't there. At all.)

ChaosTheory October 5th, 2013 17:05

I enjoyed the first half of Oblivion, but really lost interest after about the 3rd oblivion gate. The red tint and the boring world there became a grind, and since the entire game was basically focused on closing those gates, I just wasn't really interested. I also hated how all the weapons/armor was basically maxed out halfway through the game, and I thought all the NPCs were poorly designed/ugly. Never finished…

That said, I preferred the lush world of Oblivion and the design of dungeons better than Skyrim's cold desolation. Skyrim's world is beautiful at first, but then just gets depressing after several hours. It's like living in Norway, but without the hot blond chicks to balance it out.

Anyway, if they ever voice this mod in English I'll probably try it.

Kordanor October 5th, 2013 17:09

I think the reason why you see the scaling in such a bad way is because the system in vanilla Oblivion is counter intuitive as I mentioned before.
If you do what you think is right for your character (like taking the skills as your mainskills which you actually use mostly) this will have a negative effect on your character. As all enemies level up together with you, you will get weaker each level compared to your opponents.
In order to raise the character properly you have to chose skills you do not normally use, then take pen and paper to note down the skillgains and once you got enough, you need to use your "mainskills" to enforce the levelup so you get the proper attributes.
As I said…worst system I have seen in any game. ^^

Fluent October 5th, 2013 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 1061221071)

Anyway, if they ever voice this mod in English I'll probably try it.

Don't let the German voices put you off. It's really high quality voice acting, even if you can't understand it. And the translations for the most part are great. Definitely worth playing even if the voices aren't in English is what I'm trying to say :).

tomasp3n October 5th, 2013 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluent (Post 1061221074)
Don't let the German voices put you off. It's really high quality voice acting, even if you can't understand it. And the translations for the most part are great. Definitely worth playing even if the voices aren't in English is what I'm trying to say :).

Agreed, the German voice overs work fine, if you don't understand it at all it doesn't matter, just pretend it's a language only used in Nehrim. ;)

Sacred_Path October 5th, 2013 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomasp3n (Post 1061221070)
I enjoyed my first time in Vanilla Obilivion up until the point where every single bandit has Glass Armor…level scaling FTW. Or not. Then I just hurried through to finish the game, never to revisit it unmodded again. I never felt that way in Morrowind, had a blast the entire time the last time I did a complete run with the expansions, without mods. Balance issues? Well, yeah maybe, it gets kind of wacky when your jumping all over the place. But it's alot of fun.

I don't know if level scaling is in Morrowwind, if it is it's alot less obvious than in Oblivion or Skyrim. It totally kills my experience in the vanilla versions of those two (Skyrim actually does a pretty good job of keeping it a secret, but I would prefer it if it wasn't there. At all.)

Level scaling isn't a terrible thing in itself, especially for an open world game. Level locked content kinda defeats the purpose of an open world, so it's very much a subjective preference. Some people want to feel all powerful and therefore they want to go back and stomp on some bandit's face. I know this is a huge deal for some people, so YMMV.

The first thing I noticed was how the world in Oblivion wasn't full of valuable items lying around everywhere like it was in Morrowind which, with the inclusion of trainers, made the game seem like one big joke.

crpgnut October 5th, 2013 20:33

I loved the environments and level design of Nehrim, but absolutely hated the storyline. Since the next game is a continuation of that storyline, I'll probably never play their sequel. Amazing level design though. If Nehrim allows you to totally skip the lame main quest, like Oblivion does, then I'd suggest that. You're basically forced to take the side of a major prikc. I wanted to kill him and didn't have any choice in the matter. Note that I played it day 1 of the English release, so they may have improved the game since I played.

Couchpotato October 5th, 2013 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1061221087)
I loved the environments and level design of Nehrim, but absolutely hated the storyline. Since the next game is a continuation of that storyline, I'll probably never play their sequel. Amazing level design though. If Nehrim allows you to totally skip the lame main quest, like Oblivion does, then I'd suggest that. You're basically forced to take the side of a major prikc. I wanted to kill him and didn't have any choice in the matter. Note that I played it day 1 of the English release, so they may have improved the game since I played.

Thats the point of the game crpgnut. You are dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't. The game eludes to that as you play. Those who played the mod remember the dream sequences.

To put it bluntly Fate is guiding you. You are setting the stage for the future.:)


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