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-   -   Torment: Tides of Numenera - Post-Funding Update #24 (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22345)

Couchpotato November 7th, 2013 02:24

Torment: Tides of Numenera - Post-Funding Update #24
 
Torment: Tides of Numenera has a new post-funding update with informaion on the Tides, Combat, Forums, and a new Q&A video. Just a heads up it's pretty lengthy.



Quote:

Updated our Journal (24): Roll for Initiative

TL;DR:Tides, Q&A with Colin McComb, combat discussion begins!, and new Torment forums.

Hi Forgotten Ones,

We’re continuing through preproduction on Torment, designing various game systems and continuing to refine the story and character arcs. In a couple weeks, Adam Heine and Colin McComb will be coming out to inXile to meet more of our production team (still hard at work on Wasteland 2) and to discuss various aspects of Torment’s design. I’m looking forward to meeting Adam in person for the first time!

More information.

Kostas November 7th, 2013 02:24

The combat discussion is bound to attract both heated arguments and the substantial pro-TB crowd that funded a lot of the Kickstarter RPGs mainly for that aspect. While I don't feel really strong about either option I don't quite see why do the designers thing TB would suit this Torment game better. They mention practical issues like the AI or taking advantage of the Wasteland 2 infrastructure but aside from generic TB positives there's nothing really screaming Torment about it.
I'll try to clear some of that in the backer forums but it seems like they'll have to dedicate some space in the coming updates on clarifying their view.

purpleblob November 7th, 2013 02:52

I really like the sound of tides system, although the whole thing is measured without the motivation is a bit strange to me. I was answering the questions they've listed in the table myself, and it gave me completely different colour Tides to ones I've expected.. interesting… ;)

JonNik November 7th, 2013 08:33

I dont know, these:

Quote:

Combat is more thoughtful, even under intense pressure.

It allows greater depth of choice: you have time to explore all your options, so we can include more options, and more complicated options, without overwhelming the player.

We can adapt Wasteland 2’s combat system, modified to work best for Torment.

Companion AI becomes less necessary (you directly control each party member on their turn).
Seem pretty solid arguments and they are exactly along the lines I was thinking on.
I am hardly unbiased though in that I always prefer TB for isometric RPGs.

The main argument for me though is that they will be able to just port the Wasteland 2 system over to the game (that should be pretty solid by now) and just tweak and adapt it to Torment.

That will allow them to focus on what is really important for this game (providing the kind of complexity and reactivity they have promised that stems from the very interesting Tides system and the huge amount of writers and designers involved). Lets just face it, combat was never a highlight of the original, nor was it particularly good there. I personally don't want them to invest too much in the way of resources to it if they can use ready made systems….

Just my opinion of course. I'll be in no way perturbed if they go with RTWP and I am sure I'll enjoy the game equally, if the main elements promised are done justice. My only true requirement for this aspect (combat) is that it is not clumsy or problematic enough to hinder said enjoyment and thats it in the end :)

Sacred_Path November 7th, 2013 09:14

Couple of things about the tides:

Red: Zealots, by their very definition, love to live in (partly self-imposed) chains. Therefore they're pretty much at odds with revolutionaries.

Silver: All people who desire personal influence are, above all, personalities? I don't think so.

Not to be nitpicking but it I was wondering into what category an 'ambitious soldier' would fall, because I'm going to play one sooner or later. Reminds me a bit of PS:T's half-baked philosophical philandering.

JonNik November 7th, 2013 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path (Post 1061225511)
Red: Zealots, by their very definition, love to live in (partly self-imposed) chains. Therefore they're pretty much at odds with revolutionaries.

I'll definitely agree with you there. Try to convince most of our american friends otherwise though :)

In the end the system represents the viewpoints of the ones who conceived it. Which does not necessarily make it half baked. But does not mean I have to agree with those viewpoints completely though. That said, I was mostly in line with the way the original viewed things iirc.

I would not go with overly inflated expectations to be completely satisfied in the "philosophy" department as you put it but I do expect my choices to have meaningful impact and drastically shape my gaming experience.

Sacred_Path November 7th, 2013 09:30

The problem is that AFAIK your alignment with the tides changes based on your choices. Therefore, I want the tides to make sense and be consistent, or else I can't make an informed choice. Unless they will give some 'subtle' hints about which choice is tied to which tide…

JonNik November 7th, 2013 09:33

Yeah, that is a good point.

Its a pretty interesting and dynamic system the way the describe it, but there are certain pitfalls. Will be interesting to see how it will actually work in the end that's for sure…

Sacred_Path November 7th, 2013 09:46

I know it's a bit meta-gamey, but if I set out to be the fiery fighting type, I'd be pissed to end up with the gold tide. That would be kinda like thinking of yourself as a total badass but being sorted into Hufflepuff.

JonNik November 7th, 2013 09:59

While I am usually more into making a best guess with your choice (after being presented with the circumstances and backstory etc) and then sticking with it (and any nasty surprise the developer may have in store), I do understand roleplaying a character concept (and I often like to do too).

That subtle hint you said made me remember something about color codes and dialog options from one of the updates ? (I am not 100% sure. Would have to go back to the kickstarter page and look) That sounds a bit too streamlined perhaps though…

Sacred_Path November 7th, 2013 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNik (Post 1061225530)
That subtle hint you said made me remember something about color codes and dialog options from one of the updates ? (I am not 100% sure. Would have to go back to the kickstarter page and look) That sounds a bit too streamlined perhaps though…

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.

Lurking Grue November 7th, 2013 10:47

Really like the way the Torment devs do updates. They're meaty (what a wall of text, good!) and to the point. Kudos!

Kostas November 7th, 2013 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNik (Post 1061225506)
The main argument for me though is that they will be able to just port the Wasteland 2 system over to the game (that should be pretty solid by now) and just tweak and adapt it to Torment.

That will allow them to focus on what is really important for this game (providing the kind of complexity and reactivity they have promised that stems from the very interesting Tides system and the huge amount of writers and designers involved). Lets just face it, combat was never a highlight of the original, nor was it particularly good there. I personally don't want them to invest too much in the way of resources to it if they can use ready made systems….

I can certainly see the merit of focusing on the right things but like to believe we're still at a point in production where this sort of cheaping-out of (in this case) combat should be more of a last resort than part of the initial argument.

JonNik November 7th, 2013 11:56

I am definitely not seeing it as "cheaping out" (besides being pro TB I mean ;) ).

This is not a huge AAA project with an abundance of funding and resources. So careful management of what is there needs to be done to ensure they get the best out of our hard earned backer dollars. This is a game promising a complexity nowhere near seen in many multi million dollar franchises with a tiny fraction of the actual budget of those…

Now if someone was to argue that RTWP would significantly enhance the game (and this is an RPG so combat is never a part you can totally disregard no matter the game's focus) then I'd say go with it.

I just don't see it, and I'd have the lukewarm experience of the original's combat to further make me skeptical of any sort of arguments towards that direction…

Kostas November 7th, 2013 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNik (Post 1061225546)
Now if someone was to argue that RTWP would significantly enhance the game (and this is an RPG so combat is never a part you can totally disregard no matter the game's focus) then I'd say go with it.

Well as far I'm concerned on the balance between the possible number crunching that part of the pro-TB crowd loves and defying genre conventions by either a limited tactical aspect of combat or a more general demoting (too radical?) of it I certainly think the latter suits a Torment game experience more.
Don't get me wrong, there's certainly a place for a Jagged Alliance-type of experience, it's IMHO just not in this project.

ChaosTheory November 7th, 2013 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path (Post 1061225511)
Couple of things about the tides:

Not to be nitpicking but it I was wondering into what category an 'ambitious soldier' would fall, because I'm going to play one sooner or later. Reminds me a bit of PS:T's half-baked philosophical philandering.

"Ambitious" suggests a motivation, and as I understand it, the tides don't really care what your motivations are— just your actions. So basically you'd be a soldier, and it would be up to whatever actions you choose to take that will determine what tide you lean toward, not the other way around.

But I could be wrong.

Sacred_Path November 7th, 2013 15:17

I meant ambitious in a way related to personal influence, and that seems to be the silver domain. But also red to some extent.

screeg November 8th, 2013 22:06

Holy crap, they just might go with turn-based!! Although with the staggering power of nostalgia behind RTWP I'm not going to hold my breath.

I tried the alpha of Stasis, a different KS project explicitly mentioned by Fargo in the update. I like it a lot, although I find it really weird that he called out a random, unrelated, and different-genred project like that in his update.


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