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-   -   Advertising and its effects. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22466)

JDR13 November 20th, 2013 08:22

Advertising and its effects.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061227507)
Briefly: what you were into as a kid was very likely instilled partly because of the power of advertising. One of the most obvious examples would be Star Wars toys - which I assume you might have played with. Do you think Lucas and his merchandising genius had anything to do with that? ;)

Yes, but I would have liked Star Wars toys regardless of advertising. I'm quite sure of that.

On the other hand, I'm also pretty sure I still wouldn't have touched a Barbie Doll even if it was the only toy in history to be advertised.

See what I'm saying now?

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061227508)
Yes, but I would have liked Star Wars toys regardless of advertising. I'm quite sure of that.

On the other hand, I'm also pretty sure I still wouldn't have touched a Barbie Doll even if it was the only toy in history to be advertised.

See what I'm saying now?

I don't know how you can be sure of that.

If you look at Star Wars - the movie - today, it's basically a bit crap. Just like the new Star Wars movies are basically crap - but guess what: kids and young people love them.

As a kid, you don't know quality and consistent writing from the spectacle.

Also, when something is hyped - kids hear about it, and they tell their friends.

It's not that Star Wars toys are inherently bad or crap - but the reason millions and millions of people played with them is NOT that Star Wars is such a high quality film with superb acting or writing. It was just a major spectacle, which gave power to hyperbole and the impact of advertising.

Exactly the same with Avatar - which is 100% spectacle, hyperbole and advertising, if you ask me. Absolutely nothing non-visual/spectacle-driven in that film is above "meh". People absolutely adored it at first - and it's taken months for the IMDB rating to get down to sub-8 levels. Essentially, it's a bit crap.

As for the Barbie Doll, sure, you also wouldn't have worn pink girly clothes.

But you just might have played with Lego or Actionman because your friends told you about them - and because it was "cool" at the time. Cool being whatever people talk about and not what's necessarily higher quality than something else.

If you honestly believe you were a discerning individual as a child - then forget about convincing me. It won't happen.

The truth is that we're all susceptible to the power of advertising and what's "cool" - though some are more resistant than others.

That's all I'm saying.

JDR13 November 20th, 2013 08:36

You just wrote a wall of text that really didn't dispute anything I said. In fact, it didn't even have much to do with anything I wrote. :)

I'll reiterate and keep it simple. Advertising has never made me suddenly like something that I disliked.

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061227510)
You just wrote a wall of text that really didn't dispute anything I said. :)

I'll reiterate and keep it simple. Advertising has never made me suddenly like something that I disliked.

No one has said you'd like what you'd otherwise dislike. I don't know why I have to remind you of this every other debate - but there's something beyond 0 and 1. There's neutral as well, for instance.

We're talking about creating needs where there wasn't a need before.

As in, you might not have had any desire to play with Star Wars or Lego - but advertising or hyperbole created that desire in you - by making them seem so cool. It's not that they're NOT cool (necessarily) - but you were just fine without them before - and you're not really better off with them, not necessarily anyway.

If you think you'd have played with it regardless, then imagine if marketing had worked in reverse and basically made the toys seem uncool and "girly" and your friends told you it's crap and that you should stick to ET.

Obviously, JDR is beyond manipulation - but the average child would most definitely be affected by such a thing.

Also, you're saying no advertisement or marketing campaign has EVER made you reconsider IN THE SLIGHTEST that you may be wrong about one product or another? Not for a game you didn't think you'd enjoy, for instance? EVER?

Have you ever bought a "Collector's Edition" of something? Are you sure it's because you REALLY wanted all that junk? Has it been worth it always? If so, you're obviously still buying them.

Have you ever pre-ordered something without actually getting any tangible benefit from it?

Pladio November 20th, 2013 08:46

(I think) Simply what DA is trying to say isn't :
- You will like what you disliked

Instead he's saying :
- You will know about something you didn't (or didn't bother about before) and have a higher chance of liking it than other things which you are barely able to recognise
* Reason you liked Star Wars more than War of the Galaxy Lords (made up) is because of the marketing —> No marketing might have made you like the War of the Galaxy Lords more or you might just not even have bothered watching Star Wars in the first place.

JDR13 November 20th, 2013 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pladio (Post 1061227514)
- You will know about something you didn't (or didn't bother about before) and have a higher chance of liking it than other things which you are barely able to recognise
* Reason you liked Star Wars more than War of the Galaxy Lords (made up) is because of the marketing —> No marketing might have made you like the War of the Galaxy Lords more or you might just not even have bothered watching Star Wars in the first place.

That's pretty much what I said in the beginning. That it's about making people more aware of something. That's stating the obvious.

I'm talking about the likelihood of it making someone like something that they dislike. i.e. The Walking Dead.

If we were talking about different things however, (which I think it's obvious that we were), that's fine though.

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061227519)
That's pretty much what I said in the beginning. That it's about making people more aware of something. That's stating the obvious.

I'm talking about it making someone like something that they dislike. i.e. The Walking Dead.

If we were talking about different things however, (which I think it's obvious that we were), that's fine though.

Not just MORE aware - but aware, yeah.

Why would you be talking about liking something they dislike? Has txa suggested such a thing?

JDR13 November 20th, 2013 09:03

It seemed to me that it was being implied that the popularity of The Walking Dead at this point is due only to advertising.

My claim is simply that very few people who don't like that type of show to begin with are watching it due to advertising.

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061227522)
It seemed to me that it was being implied that the popularity of The Walking Dead at this point is due only to advertising.

Ok, I don't think that's true at all, though. If that's what txa meant - then I think he's very wrong.

I think TWD has a very strong premise and it had a wonderful start. Strong cast - and great performances.

That alone created enough buzz to last for a long time.

Also, it's not like other shows - which makes it unique and potentially hip.

But there's no doubt in my mind that the reason it's still so popular is because of that initial buzz - and the power of advertising and hyperbole is what has kept it cool and fresh in the minds of the larger audience.

But that's because I think it's "meh" now - and not utterly compelling as it was at first.

I think the writing is awful - and I don't think it was ever that great, but now it's just really, really bad. The story seems to be going nowhere - and characters don't seem to evolve much.

I have no clue why I'm still watching, to be honest.

JDR13 November 20th, 2013 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061227525)
I have no clue why I'm still watching, to be honest.

Heh heh ;)

Pladio November 20th, 2013 11:44

The reason most people (imo) keep watching something they have started disliking is because/despite/thanks to the hope of it going back to its former glory.
Lost is one such example of a show which went completely off its bonkers after the first season. The second season was still special and introduced some very interesting characters, but the story development went not just off the rails but way off the planetary scope for railways.

People kept watching hoping to figure out everything and having a way to make sense of it all. All in vain unfortunately.

The Walking Dead had a certain charm to it with the right doses of excitement, story development, drama, romance …. all in one. The acting was quite good and realistic within the setting.

Unfortunately it all developed into a slow drivel with nothing happening (imo).
Since I have quite a lot of other shows I can watch, I have decided to stop shows that lose their interest to me (sooner rather than later), which is why I stopped watching the Walking Dead and Covert Affairs after the first couple of seasons…

End of my two pennies ramble :)

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pladio (Post 1061227559)
The reason most people (imo) keep watching something they have started disliking is because/despite/thanks to the hope of it going back to its former glory.
Lost is one such example of a show which went completely off its bonkers after the first season. The second season was still special and introduced some very interesting characters, but the story development went not just off the rails but way off the planetary scope for railways.

People kept watching hoping to figure out everything and having a way to make sense of it all. All in vain unfortunately.

The Walking Dead had a certain charm to it with the right doses of excitement, story development, drama, romance …. all in one. The acting was quite good and realistic within the setting.

Unfortunately it all developed into a slow drivel with nothing happening (imo).
Since I have quite a lot of other shows I can watch, I have decided to stop shows that lose their interest to me (sooner rather than later), which is why I stopped watching the Walking Dead and Covert Affairs after the first couple of seasons…

End of my two pennies ramble :)

Personally, I gave up hope of it ever getting back to great a long time ago.

But it's still watchable given the strong cast and intense setting. The writing is crap and the story is going nowhere - but apparently the theme is powerful enough to make me watch it.

But I'm not lying when I'm saying that I'm half asleep most of the time. I'm watching it with extremely limited interest - and then the occasional episode gets me interested for maybe 5-10 minutes.

Calling it a great show, at this point, is just something I can't understand. But, it wouldn't be the first time I don't understand the appeal of a popular show.

Lost, for instance, lasted only a few episodes until it became clear to me that it was completely random bullshit. Glad I didn't stick around for the end.

lostforever November 20th, 2013 12:03

Advertising is designed to make you aware of products. Its also designed to manipulate as well. How much it can manipulate can vary from person to person but its certainly designed to manipulate as well as make you aware.

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 12:09

It's not a great shock, really.

The human instinct is to survive, and we're more or less programmed to accumulate things that we may or may not need for that survival to last. Try playing Fallout 3 without enjoying the scavenging ;)

Issue with capitalism and the concept of money, is that it's almost impossible to accurately guage how much you could potentially make use of - so the natural instinct is to accumulate until there's nothing left.

Advertising is an inevitable result of the inertia of the capitalistic mindset and to expect it to serve the consumer whenever that would result in less accumulation of wealth is to be ignorant of human nature.

JDR13 November 20th, 2013 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pladio (Post 1061227559)
The reason most people (imo) keep watching something they have started disliking is because *snip*…

I think "dislike" is the wrong term to use in your example. People don't continue to watch something they dislike. At least most people don't. It wouldn't make any sense.

People will however continue to watch something that they've lost a considerable amount of interest in for exactly the reasons you listed.

If it does reach the point where they actually dislike it, they're going to stop watching it completely. At least a normal person would.

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061227566)
I think "dislike" is the wrong term to use in your example. People don't continue to watch something they dislike. At least most people don't. It wouldn't make any sense.

People will however continue to watch something that they've lost a considerable amount of interest in for exactly the reasons you listed.

If it does reach the point where they actually dislike it, they're going to stop watching it completely. At least a normal person would.

If we're going into semantics, I think it's about reacting to your dislike and making a final decision.

You can catch an episode or two that you actively dislike, but that doesn't mean you will necessarily dislike all future episodes.

However, you just might dislike all future episodes. You obviously can't know.

So, yeah, people can keep watching a show they've started to dislike - but once they decide "that's it, I dislike it enough to stop expecting something better" - that's over.

At this point, I don't like TWD at all. If it had started out like this, I would have said I dislike it and stopped watching.

But I know that sometimes it can be ok - and that it was once great.

So, overall, I'm not disliking it enough to quit just yet, though I've been close on several occasions.

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 12:31

BTW, I love how we started a thread about advertising because we didn't stay on the TV-series topic - and now we're using that thread to discuss TV-series again ;)

JDR13 November 20th, 2013 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061227568)
At this point, I don't like TWD at all. If it had started out like this, I would have said I dislike it and stopped watching.

I would have stopped watching the moment I realized I disliked it, regardless of how long I'd been watching it.

There's a difference though between simply not liking something and "disliking" it. That word means different things to people, so it might simply be that we don't quite have the same definition.

I know to some people, "dislike" simply means they don't like something. In other words, they might still be neutral about it.

To me, dislike is pretty much the same as "hate", and I certainly don't continue something when I reach that point.

DArtagnan November 20th, 2013 13:11

Ok, it's definitely not the same as hate for me.

But in my world - things can change and things can have ups and downs. I've seen shows with some lesser seasons recover in the latter seasons, though it's rare.

For instance, Dexter was fantastic season 1-4 and then it slowly started to decend, but for whatever reason - season 7 was better than 5-6 and quite watchable. Season 8 was abysmal. But I was really invested in the characters and I wanted to see what happened, despite the last season being terrible.

So, I can't "realise" I dislike something quite that easily. It all depends on several factors.

As for TWD, I'm going back and forth between dislike and slightly above "meh" - but I'm curious about what happens, and the theme remains powerful.

crpgnut November 20th, 2013 15:54

Argument game ;)


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