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-   -   Character creation and additional whatnot (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23475)

joxer February 20th, 2014 20:41

Character creation and additional whatnot
 
In another thread I've promised to give details what I did since the character creation is different than in the first game.

It was my replay with Ergo's fixpack/mod installed, so I thought let's make something crazy.

I knew that the first area is so easy and soloingfriendly that I don't need to bother with the class. Also I knew that I'll be getting a spellcaster as a sidekick soon, and in another area I'll get a fighter and a thief.

All races/casses have a trait, but if I'm not mistaken only one of them can have 4 of those. It's elven spellweaver. So I took him.

His elven worldview (-2 to 4 social skills) is not possible to change, but it also gives you -90 XP to distribute as you wish.
First I've removed Endurance penalty and put artisan Talents Penalty instead. Why? I knew I won't be smithing/potmixing/bowyering/trapping and this way I got a possibility to spam better some special weapon moves but also it means +40XP more to distribute!

Second I've removed Lore Bonus and instead upped the corresponding skills (to 4/5/4) as it's cheap. Why? I don't need Streetwise (thieves always will have it), woundtreating and antipoison is needed only earlygame as I'll up healing spell to remove wounds and make bandages sellable. In the end I only need Arcane Lore at least a bit for the chitchat, but even that I can delegate to the spellcaster I'll get as a sidekick (now I didn't delegate it because I've kicked him out of the party later and I needed that skill high). Instead of Lore Bonus I've put Naive penalty, it's basically the same as Elven Worldview and it doesn't affect Human Nature which I've set to 0.

Spells? Dropped Eye/Ear and Fastness to 0. With the logic I don't need those early most definetly. But maxed Balm of Healing, Helpful Paw and Thunderbolt on 6! In the first area this means - godlike! :D
That left me with 4 XP which I left unspent with a plan to up a first good weapon I find as I knew there is no decent staff in this game - at least not till near the end.

As I've already posted, pretty early I've found a certain OP fencing weapons recipe, as a magic user I can't have strength of 547634 so all I can do is to make as much wounds as I can. No endurance penalty will help and thus later, I did train Mortal blow on my main hero, not just on the thief sidekick. ;)
Spoiler


By whatnot first I mean additional items some preorder or special game versions had:
http://www.cheathappens.com/show_boa…&titleID=16108
Actually all games have those items, and if you browse the static.db4 file with hex editor by searching the word "exclusive", you'll find codes.

From those only Ring of Deception is really nifty, other stuff is pretty much irrelevant. Okay, for a spellcaster level+1 the armor is not bad early as it allows you to summon a better animal/elemental, but it's not really needed and you'll soon stop using it completely. Do as you like, but definetly take the ring of deception "cheat".
Spoiler


Second whatnot is the cash. As you'll discover while exploring the town, some traders have items you want to buy, desperately. On Small Market Place armor trader sells Knight's Armor which is armor8 for every body part and weapons dealer sells Drakkamalmar, the OP twohanded axe that was also in the first game with a 50% chance to knockdown on hit! Yea, the problem is, those two items are unbelievably expensive and you want them as soon as possible, at least that axe. To drop the price, one of your party members needs a high haggle skill! That'll probably, as in my case, be your thief.

Haggle also works when you're selling stuff to traders, you get more cash.
So, do not sell everything as soon as possible, keep it in inventory and later in chests on the boat till you get the haggle at least 15 on your thief.
Spoiler


Now assuming you bought the goddamned axe and the party is kicking some arse, there are more things to buy as early as possible. That's Ring of Strength +3 and Gloves of Dexterity+3. With high haggle you can grab those for less than 70 ducats, each.
Spoiler
.

Safekeeping items and selling only when haggle skill gets high is not the only moneyearning possibility. There is another. Crafting.
As you'll discover, most crafted stuff is too cheap or ingredients are too complicated to obtain early to bother making and selling, but in Hunting Preserve map you'll get a recipe for Stag Beetle dagger (and your dwarf sidekick has good enough default smithing stat to make those) which sells for more than 1 ducat each. All you need is a good animal skinning skill and you'll have dozens if not hundreds of beetle mandibles and leather strips. How come? Those beetles - respawn. Of course you won't lose time on grinding! You'll just grab a few hundreds from bugs you needed to kill to get enough of cash for The axe. :)

Apart from the axe, the armor, other accessories and etc, there is another thing you'll want to get on your thief's head. It's a reward from Ox sidequest and you have to pay 999 ducats for it as it's the best helmet in the game (except maybe helm of Tie'Shianna in Phileasson's Secret DLC).
Don't rush for that one! Buy other things you need first then start piling up the cash for this helmet.
Remember. The most important thing is not to sell stuff before you have your haggle skill high. But even then…
Spoiler


Now I'll take a break, and will return later or tomorrow with some questions. I hope at least Alrik will know answers. See… There are some things I'm not sure about and would love to know if there is actually something to discover about them.

Alrik Fassbauer March 2nd, 2014 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061242143)
His elven worldview (-2 to 4 social skills) is not possible to change, but it also gives you -90 XP to distribute as you wish.

Well, that's what you'd perhaps call an "racial feat". Elves have a special way to view things, and in the 4th edition this comes as a "racial package" you cannot gewt rid of - unless you make an Half-Elf.


Quote:

By whatnot first I mean additional items some preorder or special game versions had:
http://www.cheathappens.com/show_boa…&titleID=16108
Actually all games have those items, and if you browse the static.db4 file with hex editor by searching the word "exclusive", you'll find codes.

From those only Ring of Deception is really nifty, other stuff is pretty much irrelevant. Okay, for a spellcaster level+1 the armor is not bad early as it allows you to summon a better animal/elemental, but it's not really needed and you'll soon stop using it completely. Do as you like, but definetly take the ring of deception "cheat".
Spoiler

I can give you the codes of my personal stuff, since I own an Personal Edition (PE) of the game.
Well "personal stuff" means in fact only that 1 sword and 1 armor piece are named individually.

joxer March 3rd, 2014 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061243972)
Well, that's what you'd perhaps call an "racial feat". Elves have a special way to view things, and in the 4th edition this comes as a "racial package" you cannot gewt rid of - unless you make an Half-Elf.

And that's what we'll use. I mean, abuse.
The party will cover for skills that went negative, however, we're getting other stuff boosted early perhaps too much and perhaps such thing should not be possible.
:evilgrin:
I admit it felt like a small cheat, but since it was a replay, I did it. It doesn't mean that character creation in Drakensang is flawed! It's amazing actually, and hnestly I've had so much fun with it unlike, for example, the system with forcing physical dice on a computer in RoA remake, hell I want all values ready at once, not click to get one, then click for another, then click for next then click, click and click - PC doesn't need to waste time on throwing dice one by one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061243972)
I can give you the codes of my personal stuff, since I own an Personal Edition (PE) of the game.
Well "personal stuff" means in fact only that 1 sword and 1 armor piece are named individually.

No need - I've finished the rerun and already uninstalled the game. But thanks anyway.

What I wanted to ask since you were probably in contact with devs, okay, the evil mistress of doom in the end escaped - I suppose she was about to appear in the third game, if it was ever made.
But what happened to Hubert? Is it possible to find him in this game after he goes looking for an adventure or he's also left for the nevermade third installment? IIRC there was no Hubert in the first game.

Right… Ergo's fixpack… Says it fixes some stuff. Not quite.
1. You still have to put silver medallions in your hero inventory to trade them in the Tollgate quest
2. You still won't be able to get 100 ducats if you pickpocketed medallion (or two) before you're trying to finish the corresponding quest in piratetown - luckily it's not a huge bug, all you need to do is to leave just one medallion in your hero inventory and move the other one, or two other ones (depending how many times you pickpocketed) in any other party member's inventory!

Alrik Fassbauer March 3rd, 2014 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061243992)
What I wanted to ask since you were probably in contact with devs, okay, the evil mistress of doom in the end escaped - I suppose she was about to appear in the third game, if it was ever made.
But what happened to Hubert? Is it possible to find him in this game after he goes looking for an adventure or he's also left for the nevermade third installment? IIRC there was no Hubert in the first game.

I wasn't that much in contact with the devs directly, but I drew from various sources.

Yes, she escaped and her evil plans should have been told in forthcoming Drakensang games … But they were never there, never made.

There were a few pen & paper adventures around Eilif and the Thorwalians … There is a curse on them if they should ever dare to go on the Great River …

One pen & paper adventure tells the story of the treasures that sank with Eilifs ship during the events of an pen & paper solo adventure (meaning you could play it alone, for yourself), and that was the reason Eilif had only so little of her treasures left in Drakensang 2. And the Marus.
This pen & paper adventure tells the story (or, rather, characters can experience it) of these treasures being brought up - if only partially, because the "King of the River" likes them, too … The last pen & paper adventure ( I havben't bought it so far ) lets us know why this curse was there in the first place … It was announced to be plaxyable around the Drakensang 2 times, but was later completely reworked to meet Drakensang 1 times.

Apart from that I don't know which Hubert you mean ?

joxer March 4th, 2014 16:13

Hubert is a relative of Tollgate captain who likes books more than the army service.
You get the quest to either steal his book or to "impress" Hubert to stop wasting time on reading books. If you fasttalk him out of reading (maybe you can seduce him too, however all my chars had that skill very low and all were male so dunno if samesex seducing is possible in the game) he'll later leave the service in order to chase some real adventures, instead of enjoying fictional ones in books.

Alrik Fassbauer March 6th, 2014 22:44

Ah, that one !

I'm not sure, but I think that he appears later in printed RPG books - either as an NPC or in background books.

Drakensang 2 has many hints towards events that happen during that time and which can be played as pen & paper players. One example is the invasion of Tar Honak into the Kalifate with its capital of Unau.

Farflame March 8th, 2014 20:48

Hello, Alrik! It seems that dtp forum of Drakensang is gone forever. So I finally registered here.
Hello to all RPG+ fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061244115)
There were a few pen & paper adventures around Eilif and the Thorwalians … There is a curse on them if they should ever dare to go on the Great River …

What curse?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061244115)
One pen & paper adventure tells the story of the treasures that sank with Eilifs ship during the events of an pen & paper solo adventure (meaning you could play it alone, for yourself), and that was the reason Eilif had only so little of her treasures left in Drakensang 2. And the Marus.

I assume you talk about gamebook "Eilifs schatz" (treasure).
So the main reason why Eilif returned to Kosh in the time of Drakensang 2 was to search for her lost treasure?

joxer March 8th, 2014 22:40

Farflame welcome.
It's a shame DTP treated Drakensang games like an evil stepmother, but it's their loss. In time, there might happen a way to create a fanmade third sequel.

Alrik Fassbauer March 9th, 2014 14:42

Hello, Farflame ! :) Nice to see you ! :)

Alrik Fassbauer March 9th, 2014 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farflame (Post 1061244842)
What curse?

I don't know yet. All I know that at one time Thorwalians did something terrible, so the River Father put a curce on them should they dare to go by boat on his river.

Quote:

I assume you talk about gamebook "Eilifs schatz" (treasure).
So the main reason why Eilif returned to Kosh in the time of Drakensang 2 was to search for her lost treasure?
Yesno. Yeno. According to "Eilifs Schatz", she had been there with her boats on the river (I haven't played the adventure fully through yet), but something had happened, stroipped her off her boats, and left her kind of stranded there. All she had was her Marus and a tiny rest of treasure - everything else of her treasures was lying on the ground of the river during Drakensang 2.

In "Hort in der Tiefe" ("Hoard in the Depth"), which is an pen & paper group adventure, the tale of her attempt to get those treasures back is told.
The "official" ending of this adventure is that at least some treasures can be brought back, and that Eilif gets a huge part of that. And that the heroes have to do a negotiation with the River Father to get the treasures.
I haven't played through it, so I'm not an experet on that, but I can browse through the book if you have any questions on that.

Farflame March 11th, 2014 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061244854)
it's a shame dtp treated drakensang games like an evil stepmother, but it's their loss.

Dtp was German-centric publisher with lame international PR. They basically promote the game like "another average fantasy" and BIG Dark Eye franchise in countries where nobody knows what the Dark Eye is. For example - Warhorse is czech company and make game based on (mainly) czech history but they didnt try to promote it in USA like "hello, we recreate czech history, pls give us millions for it…". It would be similar mistake.

And what is even worse - Dtp made pretty bad, cheap, generic and inconsistent english translation. They shortened texts and probably purposedly omitted most of game world lore. The game was unable to give better insight into the game world to distinguish itself. Texts were mostly generic and shortened even if the lore IS actually deeper or interesting.
They were probably afraid that english players wont understand all the nuances and lore of Dark Eye world. But the only solution is better writing, some lore books - some kind of explanation to raise interest. What they did was basically just "lets go easy and cheap way and hopefully players wont notice". It was made for Germans who knows the lore.


Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061244854)
in time, there might happen a way to create a fanmade third sequel.

Well, there are at least few mods with new quests. But afaik only in german. And one bigger (english) mod for River of Time is in early pre-production phase.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1061244933)
I don't know yet. All I know that at one time Thorwalians did something terrible, so the River Father put a curce on them should they dare to go by boat on his river.

Do you mean that he cursed Eilif and her crew or all Thorwalians? As we both know he had enough reasons to curse all Thorwalians and their ships.

Alrik Fassbauer March 12th, 2014 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farflame (Post 1061245295)
Do you mean that he cursed Eilif and her crew or all Thorwalians? As we both know he had enough reasons to curse all Thorwalians and their ships.

All Thorwalians. Long before Eilif, in an unknown age.



Besides, I have just found an Drakensang web page : http://www.dsa-drakensang.de/

Fluffyhotep March 27th, 2014 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farflame (Post 1061245295)
Dtp was German-centric publisher with lame international PR. They basically promote the game like "another average fantasy" and BIG Dark Eye franchise in countries where nobody knows what the Dark Eye is. For example - Warhorse is czech company and make game based on (mainly) czech history but they didnt try to promote it in USA like "hello, we recreate czech history, pls give us millions for it…". It would be similar mistake.

And what is even worse - Dtp made pretty bad, cheap, generic and inconsistent english translation. They shortened texts and probably purposedly omitted most of game world lore. The game was unable to give better insight into the game world to distinguish itself. Texts were mostly generic and shortened even if the lore IS actually deeper or interesting.

I'm currently playing the first Drakensang, but I deliberately ordered the German version. I find it interesting and, while not the greatest CRPG evar, it has a charm all its own. Once finished I'll get II in German too, I already have it in English in Steam ('twas on sale…) but no way am I going to play it in English now.

In general I'm fond enough of Drakensang so far to consider it a shame II failed to save the studio and its owner. It did get me interested in DSA and its setting - I'm Dutch and I remember it being translated into my language as 'Oog des Meesters' ('The Eye of the Master') back in the '80s. But it got pushed out of the market by AD&D…
At least it seems to be getting plenty of PC game love…:)

(semi off-topic: Anyone know whether Demonicon's English version was much worse than the German one? There's plenty of German language gameplay vids but I'd like to know if it's overall much better. Same with Blackguards (which I have yet to buy) come to think of it…)

joxer March 27th, 2014 18:46

Demonicon and Blackguards are completely different games from Drakensang.
But are also enjoyable so you should buy both. Dunno about differences when it comes to language and translation.

The only TDE game you should skip is RoA remake. Unlike Drakensang, Demonicon and Blackguards, the RoA remake is designed completely wrong in a way you get annoyed with pretty much everything.

Also, skip Drakensang Online, willya? It's just another Bigpoint's online milkscheme. If you want to get milked, go for their daily falsely advertised as free product on all TV stations, for example Dark Orbit.

Fluffyhotep March 27th, 2014 22:02

Already played and finished Demonicon, I was just wondering whether there was a difference between the German and English versions., but thanks for answering.
I guess I'll order Blackguards in Germany, just like Drakensang II.
And yes, I heard about Drakensang Online :-/ (it's not even legitimately DSA), but thanks for the warning anyway

Alrik Fassbauer March 30th, 2014 15:47

I don't know about English-language TDE games, since I play them (of course) only in German language. ;)

In recent times I rather talk about "Drakensang offline" and "Drakensang online" if I want to distinguish between both.

Rumor says that there was an PC game for the collectibe card game called "Dark Force" in development, but it never saw the light (and I don't know anything about it as well). Sacred 1 was meant to be an TDE RPG called "Armalion", and it burned through at least 2 studios : Ikarion (who were known to do notoriously buggy games) and Ascaron (same).
And the story behind LMK should be clear, I guess …

At least I'm glad that "the curse of TDE" didn't damage any other studios. ("The curse of TDE" made Attic, Ikarion, Ascaron, Radon Labs go bancrupt.)

Besides, with Satinav's Chains and Memoria there are actually 2 TDE Adventure games out there. Memoria is said to be very good (I didn't play it yet), and Satinav's Chans reqzuired Steam, but if you are able to get the current (until beginning of April, I assume) German magazine "Computer Bild Spiele", then you can get Satinav's Chains without Steam on the "Gold Edition" version of this magazine. (It could be that you can order it from the magazine's web page as well.) Memoria is Steam-less, as far as I know. It acts like a kind of sequel to Satinav's Chains.

Farflame April 10th, 2014 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffyhotep (Post 1061247466)
I'm Dutch and I remember it being translated into my language as 'Oog des Meesters' ('The Eye of the Master') back in the '80s.

Sounds like "Eye of Game Master", P&P appendix. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffyhotep (Post 1061247466)
Anyone know whether Demonicon's English version was much worse than the German one? Same with Blackguards

If you mean ingame texts I can tell that Blackguards looks ok, for what I see. Daedalic usually have good translations. Im not sure about Kalypso (Demonicon) but they are not as german-centric as Dtp used to be.


———
Question for Alrik:
I noticed that there is probably some "paladin" in Demonicon. Do you know what does it mean in Dark Eye settings?

Alrik Fassbauer April 10th, 2014 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farflame (Post 1061249047)
———
Question for Alrik:
I noticed that there is probably some "paladin" in Demonicon. Do you know what does it mean in Dark Eye settings?

No idea. I haven't even played the game yet.

The "Paladin" like in (A)D&D doesn't exist in TDE.

Fenris April 11th, 2014 02:49

Well, some of the TDE-Priests could easily be called Paladins :roll:

Priests of Rondra have a code of conduct that outshines that of most paladins, at least as long as martial chivalries are concerned (no use of crossbows or poisons, no retreat, not even tactical - on the other side the godess of war doesen't care much about the weak (I guess with the exception of children) or the pacifistic).

The Praiots are the lawful stupid paladin incarnated, and the Death-God has the Raven-Knights, lawful good nihilists - a whole order of knights in sour armor (I love this guys and gals). Warning - tv-tropes link :D

Farflame April 11th, 2014 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris (Post 1061249079)
Well, some of the TDE-Priests could easily be called Paladins :roll:
Priests of Rondra…

Exactly. There are so many knightly orders in TDE. Im surprised that TDE staff didnt use this word for some position. Paladins could be men placed even higher than warrior priests. For example extraordinary warrior chosen by the god/goddess himself/herself for one big task. Kind of crusader who will set on journey to reach his goal and loose "paladin" status when he accomplish it…

Its a paradox that "paladin" appears in Demonicon which takes place in Shadowlands, full of demons, doom and darkness. :) But it may be also english translation issue.

BTW: good link. :)


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