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-   -   Eschalon: Book I / Why should i play it ? WHY ? (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3254)

SALZHERZ November 19th, 2007 23:47

Eschalon: Book I / Why should i play it ? WHY ?
 
Eschalon: Book I / Why should i play it ? WHY ?

(Short background of me: old school gamer (Wizardry/Ultima etc.), 45 years, 3 kids, job etc.)

I was waiting so long for Eschalon Book I and today i installed the demo. Played it. And…… omg i trapped myself. I thought it could be fun, it could be a great classic RPG and maybe, maybe it is a great old school RPG.
But after 1 hour i asked myself, why the hell should i play this game ? WHY ?
Sure, its a great game from the underdog view, my respect. But thats all, nothing more. Why should i play it if i could also play BG II with Throne of Baal again, great story, great characters (i play it in MP with MY party and MY characters), based on a very good RPG system (D&D).
Again i could play IWD2, System Shock 2 or the 14 times Fallout 2. And all of this (and this is no critic, only the truth) are much better. No wonder because of the restricted resources of the developer team. But why should i play a game if i have alternatives installed on my computer ?
I think a old RPG gamer like me has the WISH to bring back old memories, good memories. But this doesnt mean that i would like to lost 15 years in development and production value.

So, now you can flame me. But do yourself a favor and dont let your brain direct you in a wrong direction. One thing is your (my) memories. With every bad new RPG the old ones shine brighter and better. But pls compare a BG2 against a Eschalon (no thats not forbidden) and think about it.

Again, flame me.

And no, its not a bad RPG. Its a good one. But 10 years to late.

dagorkan November 19th, 2007 23:58

How lighting works is the only thing (when you get the Cat's Eyes spell you'll only ever fight in the dark) I think this game has going for it. Other than that I have played more interesting NWN1 mods. The engine is fine, but Basilisk really should have put more effort into the quest and world design.

dteowner November 20th, 2007 00:38

I think you answered your own question. You can play F2 for the umpteenth time or you can play an "old skool" game that's new. Whether it's better or worse is up to you, but it's rather unique to even have that choice in recent years. Many of us are willing to support a "lesser" game (just did my download, so I can't speak to the quality— I'll just work with your opinion) to encourage developers to make more games like it. You'll never get another F2 until a publisher with a vault of money decides it can make more money by investing in "old skool" games.

zakhal November 20th, 2007 01:32

I still havent played through BG2. Its getting kinda dull. Echolon feels much more interesting.

skavenhorde November 20th, 2007 01:44

I don't know about you but I don't want to replay a game 15 times. I'll reload an old favorite like fallout or Quest for GLory every now and then, but I don't think I've ever replayed any game more than 5 times. I think dteowner summed up exactly why I bought this game when he said "You can play F2 for the umpteenth time or you can play an "old skool" game that's new."

So it's all about whether you really want to replay an old game or try out a new one that blends everything you loved about the one you replay.

dteowner November 20th, 2007 02:03

I've got half a million runs thru Wiz8 and I've replayed MM6 and MM7 a few times each, but that's about the extent of replays for me. If Eschalon comes even close to those games, it will be worth every penny. Really, the only drawback Eschalon will have to overcome is my preference for 1st person view. I built a ranger and tinkered a bit and now I'm ready to trash that character and try a different build. That's usually a good sign for a game in my book.

SALZHERZ November 20th, 2007 10:46

My opinion:
I prefer to play a game like Wiz8, BG2, IWD2, SS2, Fallout 2 and (yes!) the Witcher. The disappointing thing is that i hoped for more, but, realistic, it can not more production value in Eschalon. And thats not enough for me. Because there ARE other games which give me more FUN to play. I would like to love Eschalon, but i cant. Thats my problem, and i hope other will have fun and a good experience with it.
And the indie way of development RPGs is in my opinion a good way, but no way to bring us better games than the old gems. So…. i bought Devil Whiskey, i played the Spiderweb games, even the new Rogues. But no game come close to my love for BG2, Fallout, Avernum, Wiz, etc.
My hope is crushed to get a RPG like this the next 2-3 years.
No hope, only memories. Sigh….

Ubereil November 20th, 2007 12:11

Well, there's allways Dragon Age. It will prolly be one big disappointment, but it might deliver…

Übereil

vanedor November 20th, 2007 13:47

Why? Because it's different.

The interface is new, modern and the graphics don't hurt too much the eyes unlike some of these old classics.

Personally, probably that BG is one of my all time favorite serie. But hell, I finished it at least two time(both games) and what made it great to me, the challenge, the story, I know it all. So now it's kinda boring to me.

Right now I got the witcher too… but there is one element that sometimes make me prefer to play Eschalon : the load time.

Benedict November 20th, 2007 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by SALZHERZ (Post 54363)
But after 1 hour i asked myself, why the hell should i play this game ?

Again i could play IWD2, System Shock 2 or the 14 times Fallout 2. And all of this (and this is no critic, only the truth) are much better

Icewind dale 2? Okay better production values, but it was just a long, linear dungeon crawl with pretty minimal plot wasn't it? I remember getting really bored playing it.

Not that I can speak for Echalon, I only played about half an hour and haven't had a chance to give it a proper go. And in your words you've only played it for an hour too, would you say you've given it a proper go? It doesn't instantly catapult you into the heart of the action so there's no way to tell whether it's got a proper plot or not without getting stuck in properly, but that's no bad thing really, especially since you can then play around with character builds and not have to do the same plot a dozen times. Plus you start at low level without a variety of skills, spells & items, which makes it hard to tell whether there's any tactical depth.

vanedor November 20th, 2007 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benedict (Post 54455)
Icewind dale 2? Okay better production values, but it was just a long, linear dungeon crawl with pretty minimal plot wasn't it? I remember getting really bored playing it.

Never managed to complete IWD2 once. Most of it was dull and repetitive. At the end, it just got hard too.

Benedict November 20th, 2007 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanedor (Post 54458)
Never managed to complete IWD2 once. Most of it was dull and repetitive. At the end, it just got hard too.

Glad its not just me, I've seen them mentioned a few times as being good examples of the genre but to my mind they were just filler material churned out because they'd got the engine already and could make a quick buck.

GothicGothicness November 20th, 2007 14:11

BG2? IWD2? those games are so boring. I had a lot more fun with Eschalon.

I can never understand why people like BG or IWD series… and none has been able to explain it to me either :D

skavenhorde November 20th, 2007 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness (Post 54463)
BG2? IWD2? those games are so boring. I had a lot more fun with Eschalon.

I can never understand why people like BG or IWD series… and none has been able to explain it to me either :D

Ever play the gold box games? BG and IWD are updated versions of the gold box series IMO. Also have you ever tried to get your friends together for a D&D session. It's a pain in the butt because always someone flakes out or doesn't really want to play that week or any number of excuses. With BG and IWD there was no possiblity of that happening. All you have to do is double click the shortcut on your desktop and your off and running in a D&D game. Those are the reasons why I loved playing BG and IWD and it was fun :)

That being said I like what Eschalon brings to the genre and I'm having a blast playing it. I just also liked BG and IWD when they were released too.

GothicGothicness November 20th, 2007 14:43

Quote:

With BG and IWD there was no possiblity of that happening. All you have to do is double click the shortcut on your desktop and your off and running in a D&D game.
Yeah, but in a D&D session you have all the creativity and unpredidtness of human minds, and it is very social and fun occasion… granted I haven't done it now that I got older but I still enjoyed it and you can always MUD if you want that. BG and IWD series just failed to give me any interest the combat was not fun at all, the characters were not interesting at all and the story didn't interest me neither no reason to play these. In Eschalon, just upon exploring a little bit, and going through the first dungeon I already felt excitement and I was intrigued I read all the text because it is well written, and you can acctually unlike BG Explore the world! This is the most important shortfall of BG and IWD IMHO… you just click somewhere on the map and you go there… it doesn't feel like they really place you in a world!

Lethal Weapon November 20th, 2007 14:57

I can't understand why the OP felt the need to add a big 'WHY' in the title. It's not like anyone is forcing him to play or anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness (Post 54463)
BG2? IWD2? those games are so boring.

My sentiments exactly! Those are not the games I think when I'm talking about the old classics. And Fallout 2 does not even come close to the original Fallout.

skavenhorde November 20th, 2007 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness (Post 54474)
Yeah, but in a D&D session you have all the creativity and unpredidtness of human minds, and it is very social and fun occasion…

Yea, there isn't too much social interaction with BG and IWD, but I liked them when there wasn't any other choice. IWD's plot was paper thin like you said but I did enjoy the plot and overall character development of the BG series. I know the chosen one has been played to death in CRPG but I liked how BG continued after the Time of Troubles which I had just read about.

Speaking of what CRPG like to do. The amnesia plot device with Eschalon is well done. Out of all the CRPG sterotypes that gamemakers do a lot, amnesia is my favorite because it gives me a chance to get the know the character. Games like The Witcher, Planescape and a few others that I can't recall at this moment (I'll know them when I see them) are some of my favorites.

Ubereil November 20th, 2007 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal Weapon (Post 54480)
My sentiments exactly! Those are not the games I think when I'm talking about the old classics. And Fallout 2 does not even come close to the original Fallout.

Just out of curiosity: what did Fallout do so much better than Fallout 2?

Übereil

vanedor November 20th, 2007 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness (Post 54463)
BG2? IWD2? those games are so boring. I had a lot more fun with Eschalon.

I can never understand why people like BG or IWD series… and none has been able to explain it to me either :D

I don't think BG and IWD should be put in the same category.

Sure, they had basically the same interface, but BG offered a pretty good plot, a world that was really fun to explore and among the best tactical fights I ever had in a rpg. This level of tactical fight is something Eschalon (book 1) cannot even hope to approach as it's limited by the fact you have only one character.

IWD was much more linear. Had little exploration, freedom. And the plot is pretty limited, to say the least. All it offered was the ADnD system and fights… and this, in my opinion, could get really dull and repetitive after a while.

Gallifrey November 20th, 2007 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubereil (Post 54486)
Just out of curiosity: what did Fallout do so much better than Fallout 2?

Fallout had a great sense of urgency and the game was very focused. FO2 lacked that urgency, there was nothing all that wondrous about it (because we're familiar with that world) and it was extremely sprawling. FO2 also had far too much pop-culture reference points and really shallow humour. FO1 seemed more dire and dangerous.

As for why one should play a game, there is no why at all. If you like it, play it, if you don't, well then don't play it and go play something you know inside and out in favour of discovering something new.

It's not like you have to play and enjoy Eschalon to fit in, or because your peers are doing so or whatever. Nobody is forcing you to play this game, but by the phrasing of the question it seems like there's some perceived directive to play the game. Ultimately it just comes off as contrarian trolling.

If you don't like it don't play it. End of story.


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