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-   -   Pinnacle Games - 18 Genre-Defining Games @ Gamerhelp (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3427)

Dhruin December 13th, 2007 21:54

Pinnacle Games - 18 Genre-Defining Games @ Gamerhelp
 
The Bethblog is linking to a piece at Gamerhelp entitled Pinnacle Games - 18 Games That Define Their Genre…and the definitive RPG is…
Quote:

Fallout
Most RPG titles have you duking it out as a knight or a mage in a fantasy setting rife with clichéd monsters like dragons and orcs and trolls, oh my! But not so Interplays Fallout, a breakthrough RPG title that was set in a memorable setting: post-nuclear holocaust Earth. The narrative drive of the story was nothing new—a 'chosen one' ventures forth to save the world—but the presentation was something else: dark, gritty and visceral, the stark landscape of the atomically cleansed landscape was as inhospitable as it was compelling. Add in the unique S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stat system, the interesting, varied mission types and compelling narrative plot and you've got one of the finest PC-RPG experiences ever created.
Strangely, they go on to suggest "hardcore" fans might lament their choice of Fallout over Oblivion.
Honourable mentions go to PS:T and Oblivion. As an aside, The Adventure choice goes to Quest for Glory 1.
More information.

Brother None December 13th, 2007 21:54

What's with those unreleased "Worthy Heir" picks? How can you call Worthy Heir for an unreleased game.

guenthar December 13th, 2007 22:39

For me Ultima 7 would be the genre-defining game for rpgs with Fallout, PS:T, other Ultima games, and the Might and Magic games as honorable mentions.

elikal December 14th, 2007 00:54

A most questionable list. Fallout was great, but there can be little doubt Ultima 7 was the pinnacle of RPG, and others would be worth mentioning. WOW as the best MMO? ZOMG! So many quite strange decisions.

Acleacius December 14th, 2007 01:17

Surely oblivion should be moved to the Action list while adding Ultima 7 at least somewhere in the RPG list if not the top spot.

Maylander December 14th, 2007 12:30

Hmm, pinnacle games and games that define their genres? Not the same really, so they need to choose what they're going for. A pinnacle game is a game central to the genre, that has inspired others to make such games, and have features that have been used in countless other games. A game that simply defines the genre, is one representing all the good/bad sides of the genre.

I've always felt that the BG series was far more central to the RPG genre than Fallout, since it's more mainstream than Fallout (which is more of a cult game). How many games has there really been that's taken inspiration from Fallout? We seen any non-combat RPGs lately? Any games where you can be clever and complete it in no time? As far as I'm concerned, Fallout is relatively unique, and a cult classic more than a game central to the RPG genre.

On the other hand, the article mentions "games that define the genre" - and Fallout certainly represents everything good in the RPG genre. So it all depends on what you're going for really - pinnacle games or simply a game that defines its genre? For me, the two are far from the same.

txa1265 December 14th, 2007 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maylander (Post 57959)
Hmm, pinnacle games and games that define their genres?

That was *exactly* what I was thinking … c'mon guys, make up your mind …

Because they also waver all over the place with the 'Worthy Heirs' from released games, to upcoming games, to ones still too early to tell, to games they wish would be made …

woges December 14th, 2007 13:13

Well the rts should be starcraft surely?

txa1265 December 14th, 2007 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by woges (Post 57966)
Well the rts should be starcraft surely?

I agree - Company of Heroes is everyone's darling right now, but including it lacks historical perspective in my opinion.

woges December 14th, 2007 13:26

I'll have to admit that I haven't got CoH maybe I'll check it out sometime; I doubt it though, with SC2 on the way and not having too much time on my hands.

txa1265 December 14th, 2007 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by woges (Post 57968)
I'll have to admit that I haven't got CoH maybe I'll check it out sometime; I doubt it though, with SC2 on the way and not having too much time on my hands.

It is REALLY good, as is the expansion … but 'genre defining'? I dunno …

woges December 14th, 2007 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by txa1265 (Post 57973)
It is REALLY good, as is the expansion … but 'genre defining'? I dunno …

Is it better than homeworld?

txa1265 December 14th, 2007 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by woges (Post 57976)
Is it better than homeworld?

I dunno … I may be an ancient gamer but am relatively new to RTS and never played Homeworld. They are not a preferred genre, but I seem to be playing a lot of them lately (writing up reviews for Supreme Commander and Company of Heroes expansions now … )

woges December 14th, 2007 15:17

I'm not really "into" them but I did enjoy Homeworld - it has a wonderful pace and atmosphere for an rts game.

BillSeurer December 14th, 2007 17:29

No one game "defines" a genre. All newer games build on the legacy of older games and any really good game is going to have learned from the failures and successes of those older games.

Acleacius December 14th, 2007 17:34

Good point Maylander, maybe move Fallout to honorable mention and BG2 to #1 would be much better.
Ok I am a big dope I didn't even see the bethlog, so this explains how fallout3k got on the list, Gamerhelp is just shilling to get F3k name associated with the greats, sham!

woges December 14th, 2007 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSeurer (Post 58007)
No one game "defines" a genre. All newer games build on the legacy of older games and any really good game is going to have learned from the failures and successes of those older games.

I think you're wrong there because archetypes do exist. If you take rts games as an example that is really Dune 2, but, Starcraft set up the 3 races and play-style format that the genre has latched on to.

Shakespeare I believe is used a lot as far as story archetypes; although he based a lot of his work on myths also. Another book rich in archetypes is the bible.

edit:

Rpgs are filled with archetypes that define the genre.

another edit:

Actually I guess it's how you take the word defining. As in the "best" or the "archetype" - I would say archetype but that's just me.

another another edit:

I maybe in error with SC being the game that had 3 races as I think Dune2 had 3 races anyway (been a long time since I played).

BillSeurer December 14th, 2007 18:07

StarCraft inherited a lot from WarCraft 2 which inherited from WarCraft which undoubtedly inherited from other games before it. I don't think that any of them "define" the genres of RTS games, though.

woges December 14th, 2007 18:22

I think Dune 2 has pretty much everything most rts games have to this day though. Such as; the base building, tech tree, map, 3 races, theres a lot that's similar there. The only real new thing in modern rts games is online play most of the time.

woges December 14th, 2007 18:28

Tsk, I forgot fog of war. Isn't Dune 2 the first fog of war game as well?


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