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-   -   Becoming a mage (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8334)

Maylander October 4th, 2009 13:14

Becoming a mage
 
Allright, so I wanted to play a mage in my second game, and went straight to the Monastery (got knocked down and dragged in by the first Warrior that saw me). Now I'm a Warrior of the Order (level 10, just completed the city quests and entered Chapter 2), without ever having the option to become a mage (I can use Crystal/Fire/Frost, but not Seals).

So, how does one become a mage? It's obviously not by going straight to the Monastery; you'll end up a Warrior of the Order no matter what.

I suspect it has something to do with Harbor Town.. ? Perhaps, if you do all the quests there for the Inquisition, and for the mage in the Gutter, they'll give you some sort of pass that will let you join the Monastery and become a mage?

If that is the case, then the ideal start (thinking back to Gothic 1 here) would be to do all the quests for the Bandits, up to the Dons quest to go to the city, and then save a "Choice" game there, after which you can:
1) Do the quests for the thieves in the city, and join up with the Don.
2) Do all the quests for the soldiers (+mage) in the city and get a pass to the Monastery where you:
a) Become a Warrior of the Order
b) Becoma a mage

Is this correct, or is the mage path entirely different from what I suspect?

Sarven October 4th, 2009 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maylander (Post 1060974522)
I suspect it has something to do with Harbor Town.. ? Perhaps, if you do all the quests there for the Inquisition, and for the mage in the Gutter, they'll give you some sort of pass that will let you join the Monastery and become a mage?

Precisely. You'll get a letter of recommendation from Commandant Carlos allowing you to choose your path.

leth October 5th, 2009 04:46

Just to add a little here. You can finish all the swamp quests, and even do 3/4 Don's quests at the Harbour city, before you switch to the path of the Order.

Maylander October 7th, 2009 03:58

Completed the mage game now. Fun to blast people, but the runes are somewhat.. lacking. Well, they're not, they're just available too late in the game. What's the point in learning "Pick lock" halfway through Chapter 3? I already have all the money and items I want/need. Backtracking 75% of the game to open chests is out of the question.

Also, one level 4 rune? That's it? A rune you get so late, there's no point in even getting it? The few cases where it really shines are doable using scrolls; you don't even need the rune, especially since scrolls cost half the mana (they always cost 50% of the rune mana cost, except transform etc which cost 0).

Jaga October 12th, 2009 05:18

I must have done something wrong in my game.. I was initiated in the Monastery as a warrior, even though I attempted to complete all the steps which would allow me to enter as a pure Mage. Really irritating.

I completed all assigned tasks from all masters. I completed all tasks from the "mage" (Master Belschwur?) in Harbor Town. Only when I had completed 4/4 Order tasks in town and received the summons back to the Monastery did I go and talk with the Inquisitor, and was never given a choice. I stopped when he asked me to follow him out of the hall with the flame to come post here.

I simply refuse on my first playthrough to be anything but a pure mage (my favorite path in RPGs). Perhaps I missed a step that wasn't posted here, or that I simply didn't do and needed to? Any help would be appreciated.

fragonard October 12th, 2009 05:40

You have to get the harbor town mage's approval before you get to the monastery to become a mage. The best way is to start in the bandit camp for XP, then go to the town for the recs and faction choice. Don't leave town without the letter from the Commandant AND the mage's approval.

Dhruin October 12th, 2009 05:42

Can't tell you how to go back but the choice occurs when you first arrive at the Monastery, well before meeting the Inquisitor. When Pallus (IIRC) meets you and reads your letters, he says you go into the room on the left - or the room on the right, depending on whether you want to be a novice or recruit. I gues you went the wrong way and became a warrior of the order.

Jaga October 12th, 2009 05:55

So essentially, I have to sneak INTO town first before ever hitting the Monestary up, do all the mage's quests first (and order-aligned available quests), and THEN go to the Monestary and make the choice after getting a recommendation.

In a nutshell, I've wasted the last two days of gameplay because the info either wasn't available, or the game's choices weren't clear. Great. I was in the swamp doing quests until I got fed up with their backstabbing, then decided to hit the monestary and become a mage. Apparently the only way to accomplish this is to sneak into town and get friendly with Belschwur first, then the Order.

This was one gripe I had with the game when I first looked at it - buggy quests, vague references and shoddy directions. I'm all for a hardcore RPG, since I grew up on them, but having wasted days of my life really is over the top. Now I have to see if I have a savegame where I was about to leave the swamp, and re-play the last 30+ hours. I've really lost a horrible amount of time that was spent questing, wandering, listening to dialogue, testing stuff out, etc.

Thanks for the tips guys, just wish that it wasn't this maddeningly hard to pick what you want to play in the game. It'll cost them some review points when I start writing, to be sure. Cheers for the community in any event.

mastorofpuppetz October 12th, 2009 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaga (Post 1060976288)
So essentially, I have to sneak INTO town first before ever hitting the Monestary up, do all the mage's quests first (and order-aligned available quests), and THEN go to the Monestary and make the choice after getting a recommendation.

In a nutshell, I've wasted the last two days of gameplay because the info either wasn't available, or the game's choices weren't clear. Great. I was in the swamp doing quests until I got fed up with their backstabbing, then decided to hit the monestary and become a mage. Apparently the only way to accomplish this is to sneak into town and get friendly with Belschwur first, then the Order.

This was one gripe I had with the game when I first looked at it - buggy quests, vague references and shoddy directions. I'm all for a hardcore RPG, since I grew up on them, but having wasted days of my life really is over the top. Now I have to see if I have a savegame where I was about to leave the swamp, and re-play the last 30+ hours. I've really lost a horrible amount of time that was spent questing, wandering, listening to dialogue, testing stuff out, etc.

Thanks for the tips guys, just wish that it wasn't this maddeningly hard to pick what you want to play in the game. It'll cost them some review points when I start writing, to be sure. Cheers for the community in any event.

LOL, blame the game for your own stupidity? My first time through this was easily figured out, multiple people in the game tell you how to become a mage.

Uriziel October 12th, 2009 06:41

Jaga, you can continue your game and just use magic as you would as a mage. As a mage you would mostly use crystal magic(fireball), which is available to you as a warrior of the order. The only thing you'll be missing is seals and runes….neither of which were all that important and aren't really available until very late in the game.(being able to use the rain of fire rune is the only I'd bother with, but it is not available until very late) The main important things will be a fireball, mana, and some armor. All the rest is fluff for the most part.

Jaga October 12th, 2009 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastorofpuppetz (Post 1060976293)
LOL, blame the game for your own stupidity? My first time through this was easily figured out, multiple people in the game tell you how to become a mage.

Perhaps I was incorrect about the community.

Dhruin October 12th, 2009 10:40

It honestly makes little practical difference in gameplay whether you're a mage or a warrior of the order — they use some magic, anyway. And mages still melee fight, quite a bit.

I can appreciate you think it's vague but I think it makes logical sense. The inquisition arrests all immigrants on sight, which means you need to head to the bandits, or stay under the radar until you are in town. You are clearly warned that if the inquisition spots you, you'll get arrested.

But honestly, you haven't "wasted" anything - you're playing the same game, with very minor differences in the gameplay.

Maylander October 12th, 2009 11:08

I did the exact same thing Jaga. I played through the game first as a bandit (intended), then wanted to be a mage but ended up automatically becoming a warrior. I figured the most logical place to be a mage was the Monastery, so the sooner I could enter, the better, right?

Wrong. Have you to do Harbor Town first, and side with the Inquisition.

In any case, my 3rd game was a mage, and like Dhruin says, the difference is surprisingly small. The main attack spell of a mage is always crystal magic, which warriors have access to as well, so it's definetly possible to be a spell oriented warrior.

JDR13 October 12th, 2009 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maylander (Post 1060976322)
I did the exact same thing Jaga. I played through the game first as a bandit (intended), then wanted to be a mage but ended up automatically becoming a warrior. I figured the most logical place to be a mage was the Monastery, so the sooner I could enter, the better, right?

Wrong. Have you to do Harbor Town first, and side with the Inquisition.

That's one of the few complaints I have about Risen, they could\should have made certain things a little more obvious….

mastorofpuppetz October 12th, 2009 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1060976342)
That's one of the few complaints I have about Risen, they could\should have made certain things a little more obvious….


No, your flat wrong, making things tooobvious ruins the adventure, ruins the rewarding aspect of the game, becomes just another, go straight here to point b generic RPG. Everything you need is explained in the game easily enough, please, it is not that hard. People ike you are why games keep getting dumbed down.

Also, the game explains to u if you want to learn the ways of magic where you need to go, this game makes you pay attention, and thats a good thing.

revjwh October 12th, 2009 14:51

Mastorofbadspelling,

I find your tone and words offensive. You are the reason forums need to ban members who cannot maintain civility and still disagree.

Grow up please or leave the forums.

I agree, Risen is a bit dense in terms of some of the character development dynamics - which have nothing to do with the immersiveness of the world and detracts from the overall game because it has such high potential to waste countless real-life hours when one learns of such a huge mistake.

mastorofpuppetz October 12th, 2009 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by revjwh (Post 1060976357)
Mastorofbadspelling,

I find your tone and words offensive. You are the reason forums need to ban members who cannot maintain civility and still disagree.

Grow up please or leave the forums.

I agree, Risen is a bit dense in terms of some of the character development dynamics - which have nothing to do with the immersiveness of the world and detracts from the overall game because it has such high potential to waste countless real-life hours when one learns of such a huge mistake.

revilikegamesthataredumbeddown

Talk about being a hypocrite, namecalling, Insults, How old are you? Yet you tell me to grow up. This game is about consequences, if it was all laid out for you, there would be no mystery, no thinking about your actions and fear of consequences, thats a large part of the mystery of these games, sorry, but the game does no need to be dumbed down more.

Also, learn the difference between spelling, and bad typing.

Jaga October 12th, 2009 19:16

There is a distinct difference between mystery of quests, adventuring, areas, and the overall plot… and the mystery of playing the *kind* of character you want to play.

You should have a clear and obvious choice of "I want to bash things, and give a rat's arse about magic", or "I want to bash things and magic intrigues me", or "I love roasting things and floating around, and hate the thought of being a warrior". The fact that the choice is not obvious at all, and never chosen but instead earned through very specific actions you perform, makes it highly frustrating.

I love great mysteries, puzzles, and challenges. I highly dislike being forced to play a character I did not make because it was vague how to do it.

I respect your wishes that the game not hand-hold players, and agree with that. But disagree strongly with carrying that over into what amounts to "character creation", whether it is up front or through actions - it should be more clear. And I really dislike your tone in this topic.. some of us are probably old enough to have grandchildren. I don't, yet.. but my cousin does.

Anyhow, I've gone and completely started over. I figure while I lost 40+ hours of playing around, exploring, figuring out mechanics, and learning how to fight via melee quite well.. all of that experience can be put into a new game. I'll chalk up my first game as a "Warrior that I didn't finish".

JDR13 October 12th, 2009 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastorofpuppetz (Post 1060976359)
Talk about being a hypocrite, namecalling, Insults, How old are you? Yet you tell me to grow up. This game is about consequences, if it was all laid out for you, there would be no mystery, no thinking about your actions and fear of consequences, thats a large part of the mystery of these games, sorry, but the game does no need to be dumbed down more.


I find it ironic that you would ask him how old he is, because I have a feeling that most of us are wondering how old *you* are.

You obviously misunderstood what I was saying, but I can understand how someone with your level of intellect would do that.

mastorofpuppetz October 12th, 2009 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1060976422)
I find it ironic that you would ask him how old he is, because I have a feeling that most of us are wondering how old *you* are.

You obviously misunderstood what I was saying, but I can understand how someone with your level of intellect would do that.

The old, "I have nothing valid to say, so ill insult the poster" routine. Funny, no one else here is asking how old I am, yet you are the one who stoops as low as to become the forum troll, insulting like a 2 yr old having a fit because someone disagrees with you. Hypocritical, dont you think (Look in the dictionary for what that means).

I did not misunderstand what you said, but I can see how someone with your level of intellect would think that,


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