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-   -   Completed the game - random thoughts (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8465)

DArtagnan October 9th, 2009 17:15

Completed the game - random thoughts
 
Completed the game at ~40 hours.

These are mixed comments on the game, and isn't necessarily a review. As is usual for my style, it will probably sound too critical so keep in mind that my overall opinion of the game is very high.

Spoiler – Beware spoilers

mute October 11th, 2009 17:10

Spoiler

DeepO October 11th, 2009 19:55

Just completed the game at ~40 hours as well.
Played on hard, as a sword fighting bandit, spent half of the game time in first chapter, finished at level 28.

I agree with most of your points.

Spoiler


Anyway, solid 8/10 in my book.

huggster October 12th, 2009 20:15

Agree with all the above - 8/10. I would love another using same engine and a new island. And as well written as Plansescape: torment ;-)

toxeus October 12th, 2009 22:36

If only it had the feeling Gothic 2 had. I nearly finished Risen but seeing how repetitive it became, i couldn't force myself to grind on. Restarted to join a different party, only to find almost everything to be the same. Reading about the lame end-boss made me quit entirely. What a reward for all that grinding! I don't get where the "high replay value" claims come from?

G2 had replay value because every faction treated you different. Here you can befriend the outlaws at the swamp as well as the zealots of the monastery. Sneaking around there as the Don's errand boy didn't seem to get anybodys attention even when i ransacked the whole Monastery. I expected to be escorted to the Inquisitor with a tight squad of warriors all the way from the gate. Instead; "Nah, you're free the roam the Holy Halls, pick whatever is at your hands' reach."

During the second attempt at playing, offering to work for the Don in Harbour Town while wearing Recruit robes got next to no attention. Dumbasses, of course i'll double-cross you since i'm a warrior-in-training for the Inquisition! But i guess everyone roleplays in their own way. I stick to one path at a time instead of reaping the maximum possible quest rewards no matter how conflicting they are. Suppose that affects my views on the game.

All in all, an atmospheric and visually quite a pleasant game (sunset, sunrise, night time). Worth the time in any case, for the first two chapters…

Tragos October 13th, 2009 11:54

I think it is very limited and restrictive in all possible ways , definitely not for TES people like me

DArtagnan October 13th, 2009 13:36

Basically:

Risen Chapter 1-2 = ~95% score game.

Risen Chapter 3-4 = ~70% score game.

TES = ~60-80% score games if they're all taken into account.

IMO.

toxeus October 13th, 2009 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1060976683)
Basically:

Risen Chapter 1-2 = ~95% score game.

Risen Chapter 3-4 = ~70% score game.

TES = ~60-80% score games if they're all taken into account.

IMO.

Immersion- and atmosphere-wise, agreed. But freedom of exploration, gear choices, character development, factions, etc. i think i prowled through Risen's offerings in a few days whereas i don't think i've seen every location or piece of unique armor in Morrowind even to this day.

DArtagnan October 13th, 2009 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxeus (Post 1060976686)
Immersion- and atmosphere-wise, agreed. But freedom of exploration, gear choices, character development, factions, etc. i think i prowled through Risen's offerings in a few days whereas i don't think i've seen every location or piece of unique armor in Morrowind even to this day.

There were great parts of all TES games - but in each instance there were problems so huge as to overshadow the great parts quite severely, as I see it.

As for Morrowind, I found the NPCs, combat, cookie-cutter dungeons, and character system absolutely dreadful - which is a huge problem in a CRPG of that nature. Tons of other problems, but those were the big issues for me. The character system, which is so praised by many people, is basically the same except minor differences across the series - and I always DESPISED it. So that's a very subjective factor.

toxeus October 13th, 2009 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1060976687)
There were great parts of all TES games - but in each instance there were problems so huge as to overshadow the great parts quite severely, as I see it.

As for Morrowind, I found the NPCs, combat, cookie-cutter dungeons, and character system absolutely dreadful - which is a huge problem in a CRPG of that nature. Tons of other problems, but those were the big issues for me. The character system, which is so praised by many people, is basically the same except minor differences across the series - and I always DESPISED it. So that's a very subjective factor.

Subjective indeed. I liked the variety of choices. More often than once i ended up ditching a character only because a brand new idea popped in my head, that doesn't happen with games like Risen. Then again, who likes that and who doesn't… The stick-figurine combat was dreadful, yes, and not just because of animations. But i pushed all of that aside just to see the world, especially when filled by mods. Very rewarding adventuring.

DArtagnan October 13th, 2009 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxeus (Post 1060976688)
Subjective indeed. I liked the variety of choices. More often than once i ended up ditching a character only because a brand new idea popped in my head, that doesn't happen with games like Risen. Then again, who likes that and who doesn't… The stick-figurine combat was dreadful, yes, and not just because of animations. But i pushed all of that aside just to see the world, especially when filled by mods. Very rewarding adventuring.

It might just be me, but I have a very hard time getting excited by the message "Blade skill increased from 33 to 34" with absolutely no discernable difference whatsoever.

In Morrowind it's especially bad, because there are no new moves or powers in combat, just a number scaling upwards whenever the comparison between skill and inherent weapon damage warrants it. As I recall, they even had a "feature" where between the tiny handful of attacks, it would automatically use the most efficient one so you could effectively witness the exact same attack throughout the entire game.

It's a nice idea to have spell creation and item creation, but given the dreadfully boring effects and no sense of discovery in that way - it's basically a wasted effort.

I adore the idea of that level of customization, but if you're going to give players that kind of power - you gotta make it exciting. Even if you can create ten zillion spells, who among us would bother to select more than a dozen to fit our purpose and just scale them as our power grew. It's MUCH more interesting to have developer designed spells with cool names and effects that you're dying to discover.

That's why I consider Risen infinitely better in that regard, because spells and attack moves were great in terms of rewarding progress.

I have a hard time imagining a more hollow and non imaginative way of providing character progress than what I've witnessed in TES - but as I said, that's subjective.

Tragos October 13th, 2009 14:25

My intention was not to show which series are better but which i like the most and this is TES , Gothics style of gameplay is just not right for me.
Risen IS limited and restrictive , the whole "trainers" thing exist to restrict you to name just one .
Also what i really HATE in games is when they force you into main quests , at least in TES you can safely say "Frack the world and it's problems i'm gonna be an inglorious thief"



Edit: It isn't fair comparing a 2009 game with a 2002 one

toxeus October 13th, 2009 14:29

It's all about gamers' preferences. That's why it's so nice to have a large and variable offering of RPG's with more to come. Some of us like both TES and Gothic, plus a little hack and slash Diablo or Titan Quest on top of the soup. Basically anything with swords and fireballs work for me. :)

DArtagnan October 13th, 2009 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragos (Post 1060976699)
My intention was not to show which series are better but which i like the most and this is TES , Gothics style of gameplay is just not right for me.
Risen IS limited and restrictive , the whole "trainers" thing exist to restrict you to name just one .
Also what i really HATE in games is when they force you into main quests , at least in TES you can safely say "Frack the world and it's problems i'm gonna be an inglorious thief"



Edit: It isn't fair comparing a 2009 game with a 2002 one

Fair?

This isn't about justice - this is about opinions. In my opinion Gothic 1 is better than all TES games as well, including the latest one.

Tragos October 13th, 2009 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1060976703)
Fair?

This isn't about justice - this is about opinions. In my opinion Gothic 1 is better than all TES games as well, including the latest one.

The latest one was the worst , still playing as an assassin/sniper with a bow was very nice and at least going archery skill from 33 to 34 gave you something (more chances to hit / damage ) in Risen going from bow 1 to bow 3 gives you nothing .

It isn't fair comparing animations , AI and the rest between Risen and Morrowind .
The less choices Devs are doing for me the better , as i mentioned above i hate hand holding & "do quest A to move into quest B" . I am playing X-universe sci-fi games since X-BTF (1999) and never did any of the main quests .
Spell/Charactere/Weapon creation rocks , pre-set kind of stuff get old very fast.

DArtagnan October 13th, 2009 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragos (Post 1060976709)
The latest one was the worst , still playing as an assassin/sniper with a bow was very nice and at least going archery skill from 33 to 34 gave you something (more chances to hit / damage ) in Risen going from bow 1 to bow 3 gives you nothing .

I'm pretty sure the bow thing is a bug, but even so - why ignore all the other skills where each point gives you something significant? That almost makes me think you WANT to dislike the game rather than look it at with a reasonable lack of bias.

Tragos October 13th, 2009 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1060976718)
I'm pretty sure the bow thing is a bug, but even so - why ignore all the other skills where each point gives you something significant? That almost makes me think you WANT to dislike the game rather than look it at with a reasonable lack of bias.

Why being preoccupied ? The last thing i want for my gaming life is to post how much better stupid Oblivion is from a game i was really waiting for.

I am mostly playing archers and thiefs but sword 2 only gave me a tricky move that takes a lot of time to practice and many reloads to master , i don't think this is a bug.

DArtagnan October 13th, 2009 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragos (Post 1060976722)
Why being preoccupied ? The last thing i want for my gaming life is to post how much better stupid Oblivion is from a game i was really waiting for.

I'm not sure what you mean with being preoccupied? Are you referring to me or yourself? If you think I'm being preoccupied by trying to make sense of your posts, then forgive me for not seeing a reasonable alternative. I can't just ignore what you're saying, as that would be rather rude of me.

Quote:

I am mostly playing archers and thiefs but sword 2 only gave me a tricky move that takes a lot of time to practice and many reloads to master , i don't think this is a bug.
No, I don't think sword skill is bugged either?

Tragos October 13th, 2009 16:03

Apologies for not being clear, i meant that i was not pre-occupied against Risen and i was looking forward to enjoy it .
I don't think that my posts are rude , we are just having a civilised disagreement which is the purpose of forums.

DArtagnan October 13th, 2009 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragos (Post 1060976743)
Apologies for not being clear, i meant that i was not pre-occupied against Risen and i was looking forward to enjoy it .
I don't think that my posts are rude , we are just having a civilised disagreement which is the purpose of forums.

I agree completely, and I didn't mean to say your posts are rude :)


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