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-   -   Armor or Shield Talent? (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8819)

Thrasher October 26th, 2009 19:49

Armor or Shield Talent?
OK, I am about ready to to go to the swamps. So I'm looking at equipment for Rhulana and beardless dwarf. They have enough points for armor skill upgrades or going to shield skill level 2. But not both. So I wonder which is better, getting some extra points in armor class and then taking the armor talent to get encumbrance down. Or just increase armor a little and taking the second level of shield talent.

It's a trade of 2 points on shield parry vs another point or 2 armor class on some areas like head, back, arms, and legs.

I'm veering toward the shield increase, since better armor is sure to make my way anyways, so it would be wise to save my ducats at the market and XP points if not needed because I might find lighter/better armor.


Alrik Fassbauer October 26th, 2009 21:17

Hm, difficult choice.

More armor alwys means = more hindrance. The less hindrance the better, especially with adventurers in *full* armor.

On the other hand, a shield can parry (if I remember this correctly) a few to several beats, consult the handbook for that. Or do a right-click on the skill, I think there should open an explanation window on that.

I think it also depends on who you are going to fight. Parry is a bit better against humans & humanoids, but I don't know how this is performed rule-wise.

I don't quite remember, but I think there are some life-forms and some non-lifeforms ;) which you can't parry - but I'm overasked on that. Especially since I'm not that good with the 4.0-4.1 rules.

I was just browsing through my game's handbook, but unfortunately it didn't offer me any help on that.

So I can do nothing but hope that there's someone with better knowledge here than me. ;)

And don't forget doing a right-click on talents for the description !

Thrasher October 26th, 2009 22:23

Yes, I have the second shield parry already with these chars, by getting the shield 1 talent earlier. So shield 2 just gives 2 more points in parry.

It really comes down to a reduction in either

(1) change to get hit (if only fighting 2 or less opponents)
(2) damage if hit.

It seems that armor boni would be better if you get swarmed alot, whereas the shield bonus is better against single or duo big baddies that if they hit you they do massive damage.

But both these chars have maxed weapon talents (which mean maxed parry talent for their level). So will 2 extra parry on a second attack help that much when compared to overall damage reduction gained by better armor?

Now I'm leaning the other way….

Cm October 27th, 2009 17:08

You can adjust your weapon parry some when you do a level up I do believe. You decide if you want more parry vs attack with that weapon class and it costs nothing to change it.

Alrik Fassbauer October 27th, 2009 17:11

Hm, personally, of course, I'd prefer the better armor … I think I did so in the game, too …

Because … I think I would regard an overall protection safer than an additional parry possibility … And I don't know whether parry can be cumulated.

Thrasher October 27th, 2009 20:06

Yes, that is what I was thinking, except when up against really badass bosses who do massive damage and saving a point or 2 of damage seems minor compared to minimizing the chance to get hit entirely.

So I compromised. ;)

Rhulana I gave the armor ugrade to, and Forgrimm, who is my tank, especially against bosses, gets the shield upgrade level II.

First test was against an ogre during an random encounter. They both ended up getting knocked down a couple times (even while using defensive combat), and takiing about the same percentage of damage. This sort of meets my intent. I'd like them to be equally capable (or incapable) of taking abuse. We'll see in the future ….

Thrasher October 27th, 2009 20:14


Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1060979753)
Hm, personally, of course, I'd prefer the better armor … I think I did so in the game, too …

Because … I think I would regard an overall protection safer than an additional parry possibility … And I don't know whether parry can be cumulated.

With second level shield talent, you don't get an additional parry, but just get 2 added to your shield parry skill. Assuming your attackers' attack rating is about 10 and your shield parry rating is about 10, that gives you a 50% chance of being succesfully attacked, and a 50% chance of missing your parry. That comes to 25% for actually being hit. Now if your parry is 2 more because of shield II, attack chance remains the same, but missing your parry goes down by 10%. So chance to getting hit is .5*.4=20%. Only a 5% reduction. Seems barely worth it!

Alrik Fassbauer October 27th, 2009 22:27

Oh, these calculations are not at all my thing, sorry to say that. Especially since I have a little bit weakness with numbers.

I estimate what might help, and overall, I'm playing rather for the athmonsphere than for calculating chances. ;)

It's just the way I play. ;)

But of course you can find "calculators" among the TDE fans. There are even programs for that, written by some fans. Not my thing, though. ;)

Thrasher October 27th, 2009 22:30

Yes, numbers are my weakness. I have deep seated need to understand all the rules down to the gory details. ;)

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