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-   -   vs Dragon Age? (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9266)

oliverh72 November 26th, 2009 21:08

vs Dragon Age?
 
I asked this in the Steam forums as DA is on 25% off there until midnight, but on retrospect, I should have asked here first as RPGW has a much more dedicated group of gamers, imo.

I've tried Drakensang as there's a demo and I quite like it. And up until the DA sale, was on the verge of purchasing it as I just finished Two Worlds last week.

How do these games play, comparatively. It seems to me they're very similar, but I can't find too many direct comparisons online.

What say you? Is there too much talking in DA? I'm not in it THAT much for the story, more the gameplay and the loot. I don't know if I actually have time for an 80 hour game…. more like 30/40 or so. Drakensang seemed to be really well done; easy to play and get into, interesting skill and talent trees with a very accessible character & alchemy system. Of course, I couldn't find a trainer for lockpicking in the demo for the life of me, but whatever. :P

Thanks!

vanedor November 26th, 2009 21:21

DA is overall a better product imo. A better developped world, better characters, richer 'loot' if that's what you care about. Not that Drakensang is a bad game, but it just feels to me like a poor man version of DA.

Alrik Fassbauer November 26th, 2009 21:30

You just cannot compare DA and Drasa, imho, because they are totally different worlds with different mechanics and experiences.

Drasa is far not that "dark & gritty" than DA is said to be (I don't have DA), and personally, for me, this is a plus.

The world looks very much … mediaval, and doesn't have as much magic as (A)D&D games and more or less consequently DA used to have - the setting simply doesn't allow it. Aventuria is just a world with relatively few magic (and fans even said that in the game are far too many magical objects compared to the P&P version of that world).

Drasa is focused on a much broader audience, that's why it's not that dark than DA, and although there are some points, it isn't as bloody as DA is said to be as well.

Plus, it has a different approach, overall.

There is a relatively lot of combat (for some fans too much, because in the P&P version of the system there is much more focus on social skills, too), but there is also talking and trading, so to say. Plus exploring, imho.

I'd say : Try the demo first, then decide what to do.

Arhu November 26th, 2009 21:39

Dragon Age and Drakensang do seem very similar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanedor (Post 1060985803)
DA is overall a better product imo. A better developped world, better characters, richer 'loot' if that's what you care about. Not that Drakensang is a bad game, but it just feels to me like a poor man version of DA.

This is true to some extent. I disagree about the loot. DA's loot was terrible. Not as bad as that in Mass Effect, but still bad.

In a nutshell, Dragon Age is all about presentation, dialogues, combat and interactive storytelling. Drakensang is less good in those areas, but has other qualities that DA sucks in.

DA is a better, bigger game overall with a way bigger budget. There's no idle time, you are pushed forward relentlessly, either through fully voiced dialogue or through combat. The whole presentation is excellent. The rest is not noteworthy, but it doesn't matter too much when you are captivated enough by the aforementioned things.

Drakensang has some slow/boring parts in it, particularly the beginning unfortunately, but I found it a bit more atmospheric compared to DA. Drakensang also has much better items; magic weapons or armor actually feel special and unique. Characters are not fully voiced, the main character however is a mute in both games. Although there are a lot more skills in DA, I found the skills in DraSa more fun and interesting. They are not all combat-related, which means the actual gameplay is more diverse compared to DA. You actually get to do non-combat quests in Drakensang.

If ratings are your thing, I'd give Dragon Age a consistent 90% for fun, but only 75-85% for memorability.
Drakensang's fun jumped a bit, starting with 75%, ending with 80%, with high points at 85-90% in between, memorability is a bit higher than DA though, maybe 85%.


I'm curious how Drakensang 2 will compare to both its predecessor and Dragon Age.

Gorath November 26th, 2009 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arhu (Post 1060985805)
I'm curious how Drakensang 2 will compare to both its predecessor and Dragon Age.

I'm not curious. ;)

Arhu November 26th, 2009 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorath (Post 1060985806)
I'm not curious. ;)

You know already, don't you? ;)

Gorath November 26th, 2009 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliverh72 (Post 1060985802)
I don't know if I actually have time for an 80 hour game…. more like 30/40 or so.

Drakensang is an 80 hour game. ;) But maybe DA too.

Quote:

Drakensang seemed to be really well done;
It is. Just very conservative. Surprsingly polished for a Euro-RPG. No comparison to the AAA project Dragon Age though.
Quote:

easy to play and get into,
Correct, despite a massive p&p RPG system behind it.

Quote:

interesting skill and talent trees with a very accessible character & alchemy system.
This is where a p&p system grown over 25 years pays off. The Dark Eye is deep and rock solid.

Quote:

Of course, I couldn't find a trainer for lockpicking in the demo for the life of me, but whatever. :P
There is none. Just a quest which will lead to one. ;)

The demo is Drakensang's weakest area, BTW, because it offered only a few choices for character development. It gets much better when things open up.

If you like the DraSa demo and you prefer a 40 hour game the upcoming Drakensang: The River of Time could be the game you're looking for.

edit:
To avoid being misunderstood:
I have a DA Colletor's Edition and I like the few things I've seen so far. Great atmosphere. I'll certainly play it in the near future.

Gorath November 26th, 2009 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arhu (Post 1060985809)
You know already, don't you? ;)

Played it until a few minutes ago. ;)

vanedor November 26th, 2009 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arhu (Post 1060985805)
This is true to some extent. I disagree about the loot. DA's loot was terrible. Not as bad as that in Mass Effect, but still bad.

I don't know, it seems to me that what you can use/wear/wield in DA is much more varied with *lot* of armor/weapon types, and none necessarily better. With things such as fatigue and armor piercing to counterbalance brute protection/damage, bonus for having a full set of the same armor type, etc.

By the way, I did not complete Drakensang. It seems I pretty much lost interested after way too many repetitive combat sequences. Dungeons/combat in DA are very much better designed and they managed to make most of them interesting. They did not repeat the mistake of NWN2.

I also found DA much more… emotional. For example, the human noble origin, or the battle of Ostagar(sp?). I never got into that sort of emotion in Drakensang.

Yeah, Drakensang didnt go as high-fantasy as DA and I prefer this. The history buff in me found it somewhat silly that every tiny villages seem to have templars/knights/whatever in full royal silly looking plate armor protecting them. But that is a minor point.

oliverh72 November 27th, 2009 00:24

Wow. Thanks so much for the responses! This makes my decision even harder, not easier. :P

The thing is, I could find 80 hours to spend on a game, I'd just have to stretch it out over a very long time. And until Two Worlds, I hadn't finished a game in ages. Not sure why TW hooked me so much, but it did. I currently also own Risen, Torchlight, Sacred 2, and King's Bounty, none of which I've finished.

Risen, I find too frustrating, though I do like it. Torchlight is awesome, but to me, it's a play for 30 minutes now and again game so I don't get burned out on how light and fluffy it all is. Which I really love, mind you. Just not for a true RPG fix. Sacred 2 is… well, awkward. It's good, but awkward. Best way I can describe it. King's Bounty is more turn-by-turn than I'm itching for. So I figured Drakensang would hit that sweet spot.

But now that DA is on sweet sweet sale… Oh what to do?

RIGHT. That's what I was going to say… When's the sequel coming out? From your comments, it sounds like a shorter, standalone version, no? Gorath, can you give me any hints as to whether or not it's worth the wait? via PM perhaps?

JDR13 November 27th, 2009 04:18

I can't speak for Drakensang, but DA is a great game. Just be aware that the loot system is not its strong point.

ulixes November 27th, 2009 06:17

As a big The Dark Eye buff I would probably still recommend Dragon Age to you. The production values are just so much higher, and that you can experience on every corner. Fully voiced (and extremely extensive) dialogue is one of the main reasons for which I'd prefer Dragon Age.

All in all Drakensang is still a great game, if you can get it cheap (lets say 10-20$) its definitely worth it. It does some things better or as good as Dragon Age, its just… I'm a sucker for presentation, and for its awesome presentation I love Dragon Age - although I have to admit I've been let down a bit by the artistic design.

Drakensang 2 will be a standalone prequel, by the way. It will be shorter (half as long), but will have a more densely told story. Drakensang 1 has a lot of boring segments without story in between, which they want to avoid in the prequel. And it will be fully voiced, which is great.
I'll definitely buy it, I'm just still asking myself if I want to fork out 90€ for the Personal Edition… I'd have to preorder that the next few days… hmmm…

aries100 November 27th, 2009 10:28

You do not need to play DA for 80 hours; people on the Bioware DA forums have played DA for only 20-30 hours. It all depends on your individual playing style. The origins in DA, however, will net you between 2-4 hours of gameplay. And you really only have to do the main quest and maybe some fo the side quests. Then, still, people on the DA forums have also sepnt like 98 hours playing DA.

As for the loot in DA, it is not so great again, I belive? The setting is sort of low magic, so no swords +1 laying around aplenty. There's an alchemy system in DA as well, just choosethe Herbalism skill, and you will be able to make potions.

Like in DraSa you can pause the game and give commands to your 3 team mates. And you can get a Dog as companion, too :) - in DA, that it.

In the demo for DraSA, you'll need to pick up a character atop on mountain high that will open locks for you - if you have lockpicks that is ;)

Compared to DraSa, there is much talking in DA. However, this could simply be bcause all characters are voiced over in DA, and not so in DraSa. You can do some very interesting quests for your companions in DA, though.

DA uses the influence system, members of your team will leave you, if they don't like you or disagree (too much) with your decisions as a leader. Just shower them gifts they like….and stay on their good side :)

There should be a some gameplay videos out there for DA (since there's no demo for this game). The giant bomb 20 minute run is probably the best one I've seen so far. Else, try gametrailers.com or even youtube.com - Bioware is such a cool company, that they don't mind people making videos of the getting, then uploading them to youtube.

mute November 27th, 2009 11:37

I think i felt more at home in Drakensang. Was very fun getting into the lore again. The thing i was bothered with in Drakensang is the "non strategic view". I think its the same as Dragon Age at console.

However i feel the combat mechanics are much better in Drakensang.
Overall i remember Drakensang more fondly then my current frustrating play through in DA. But i can't help to wonder how i would feel if i would have played Dragon Age first, then Drakensang. The actionoriented gameplay is very similar. (The enemy in Drakensang is however more varied)

My vote, for now, would definitly go to Drakensang. I am really looking forward to number 2.

EDIT: I do think however that it is fantastic that we currently have two great party based old school RPGs to play with. Dragon Age did have much higher expectation from me then Drakensang. Drakensang was: "Oh, please let not suck", where Dragon Age held "Please be rpg nirvana".

Alrik Fassbauer November 27th, 2009 12:55

I distill from these comments that a game with lots of budget and a bigger company will always be better than one with a small one ?

By the way, I played Drasa 2 early October as well …

The bits I played made a better impression to me than Drasa 1.

DeepO November 27th, 2009 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by aries100 (Post 1060985883)
You do not need to play DA for 80 hours; people on the Bioware DA forums have played DA for only 20-30 hours. It all depends on your individual playing style.

First play through DA in 20-30 hours means playing on easy, fastclicking through all dialogues, not reading codex entries and skipping through all the optional content. Thatīs not really a playing style which should be taken into consideration imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer (Post 1060985891)
I distill from these comments that a game with lots of budget and a bigger company will always be better than one with a small one ?

As I see it, Dragon Age is a great game despite having lots of budget and being from a big company :).

Gorath November 27th, 2009 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliverh72 (Post 1060985817)
RIGHT. That's what I was going to say… When's the sequel coming out? From your comments, it sounds like a shorter, standalone version, no? Gorath, can you give me any hints as to whether or not it's worth the wait? via PM perhaps?

The press embargo is already over, so there's no need to hide anything. All the latest German previews are based on the same press event and the beta shown there. DraSa: RoT will come out in Germany in mid February. It's already in late beta. I had one crash and only 2 major bugs so far. That's close to nothing for a build still 3 months away from going gold. It's worth noting that dtp (a) gave each journalist the beta to play in his office and (b) did not (try to) exclude certain points from coverage. They must be damn sure their product is convincing.

RoT will be more compact, a bit deeper and improve just about everything. Quicktravel alone is worth the money because it solves Drakensang's biggest weakness. Animations and storytelling are much better now.

More in the preview.

oliverh72 November 27th, 2009 17:47

Thanks, all, again.

So I gave in to temptation and purchased DA before the cutoff at $37 USD. I had enough time this morning to create a character and watch the first interactive cutscene, and that's it. It does look amazingly polished. I have to say though, from the demo, DraSa looked/looks just as good. Not as dark and gloomy, mind, but good in a really sparkly way, if that makes any sense. I like the feel of it a lot.

I'm going to wait to see if DraSa goes on sale and until then, play DA some. Then I'll decide whether to get it or just get the sequel. From what everyone here is saying, the sequel looks to be what I'll end up with. It sounds really quite good.

One thing I like better about DraSa over DA (even from the demo) is the clearly more varied starting builds. I really want to play as a battlemage or a pirate. How cool is that? The whole mage/warrior/rogue thing is rather limiting, I think. I know they open up into 12 potential classes, but it just seems so… done.

Quick question: in DA, can any other class dual-wield other than the rogue? Can I have a dual-wielding warrior with a pinch of spells, like fireball? I love me my battlemages. :D That's what I played throughout TW though frankly, the fireball spell became more and more useless as I went along whereas melee became so overpowered, the end of the game was a joke. But that could also have been because of the 30-odd potions I'd carry around. :P

Oliver

JDR13 November 27th, 2009 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliverh72 (Post 1060985942)
Quick question: in DA, can any other class dual-wield other than the rogue? Can I have a dual-wielding warrior with a pinch of spells, like fireball? I love me my battlemages. :D That's what I played throughout TW though frankly, the fireball spell became more and more useless as I went along whereas melee became so overpowered, the end of the game was a joke. But that could also have been because of the 30-odd potions I'd carry around. :P


Rogues and Warriors can dual-wield, but only Mages can use magic in DA.

There is a Mage specialization called the Arcane Warrior that is sort of like a battlemage.

wolfing November 28th, 2009 04:16

In a way, you could see Drakensang as Dragon Age if it only had $1 million budget instead of the gazillion it had.


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