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-   -   Tssss, no save (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=988)

JemyM December 21st, 2006 19:57

Tssss, no save
 
I just gave up on Bard's Tale after giving up on Fable. Same reason for both: No save function >_<

I do not want to see the same stuff over and over and if I want a special challenge I play Tetris. No save function cater to youngsters without a real life and I do not qualify.

Just wanted to rant.

Moriendor December 21st, 2006 20:23

True that. Shitty console ports should be punished by the death penalty (low voltage electric chair to make it extra fun) :biggrin: .

txa1265 December 21st, 2006 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JemyM (Post 13454)
No save function cater to youngsters without a real life and I do not qualify.

I don't know if I agree with that, as the 'console kiddies' now average ~25-30 … and no-save (or checkpoint soft-save) is definitely a console artifact.

Completely annoying, I agree!

Oh, just thought - I was playing the Eragon GBA game and even *that* lets you save anywhere except during combat …

Dhruin December 21st, 2006 23:18

Agreed. Anytimes saves is an absolute requirement for me.

txa1265 December 21st, 2006 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhruin (Post 13479)
Agreed. Anytimes saves is an absolute requirement for me.

I've traded 'absolute requirements' for 'infinite annoyances' … so instead of missing out on games, I just get annoyed while playing them - and convince myself it is better that way ;)

Acleacius December 21st, 2006 23:50

I agree as well, though I did play both of these titles mostly for the humor, both games can be made to actually save anytime, well almost
It's been so long I am having trouble remembering, 6 months or more in game time is an eternity.
Iir, Fable uses respawning levels and basically each level takes 5 minutes or less since they are scaled monsters based on your skills and magic.
The best way to handle it is to always stop your game at the start of a level where it saves and you will always start where you left off, so it can easily be controlled.

The game that really annoyed me was Far Cry which considering all the history of the development was very interesting game.
Billed as open-end game allowing you to take different paths and approaches with no freaking Quick save, you had actually travel the exact paths they wanted you to or you don't get saves.
This made the game take twice as long, as I would do my own way then run around looking for save points, which totally takes you out of the game experience

magerette December 22nd, 2006 00:04

I've never understood this concept of not letting you save—what is it supposed to be for? People who don't want to save for whatever reason are under no compulsion to do so normally, so why make it a game function for everyone?

There is nothing more boring and exasperating than replaying a whole level because you forgot to save and died an ignomious death, but at least it was your own stupid fault. When the game sets you up to fail like this, it hardly would seem to motivate you to play.

Does anybody like it this way? I've never played that type of game, so I may be missing out on it's advantages.

curious December 22nd, 2006 00:56

i remember when i first played thief years ago. made it through cragscleft before i realized you could save…good thing i was playing on normal. was bloody tough though!

JemyM December 22nd, 2006 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acleacius (Post 13488)
The game that really annoyed me was Far Cry which considering all the history of the development was very interesting game.
Billed as open-end game allowing you to take different paths and approaches with no freaking Quick save, you had actually travel the exact paths they wanted you to or you don't get saves.
This made the game take twice as long, as I would do my own way then run around looking for save points, which totally takes you out of the game experience

I had forgotten about this. I actually used a hack that enabled quicksave wherever I was. I do not think I would have enjoyed the game as much as I did if I couldnt.

txa1265 December 22nd, 2006 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by magerette (Post 13493)
I've never understood this concept of not letting you save—what is it supposed to be for? People who don't want to save for whatever reason are under no compulsion to do so normally, so why make it a game function for everyone?

There is nothing more boring and exasperating than replaying a whole level because you forgot to save and died an ignomious death, but at least it was your own stupid fault. When the game sets you up to fail like this, it hardly would seem to motivate you to play.

Does anybody like it this way? I've never played that type of game, so I may be missing out on it's advantages.

The only one I think of that I liked was Dark Forces - because it was well designed for a no-save completion of the levels … and because the levels were so freakin' good!

Corwin December 22nd, 2006 02:10

I think I mentioned this in the review I wrote for BT!! There is ONE thing worse than playing a level and then dying right near the end before you can save; having to wade through 10 minutes of dialogue and cut scenes first, before you can replay the level/battle-EVERYTIME!!

The Wanderer December 22nd, 2006 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JemyM (Post 13454)
I just gave up on Bard's Tale after giving up on Fable. Same reason for both: No save function >_<

I do not want to see the same stuff over and over and if I want a special challenge I play Tetris. No save function cater to youngsters without a real life and I do not qualify.

I've played so many games that didn't have any save fonction. A lot were console games from the Nintendo era. Mega man, Contra and the likes. These were very popular 2D sidescrollers in the late 80s and early 90s… Because I am no good with hand eye coordination, it took me quite some time to finish them.

Because of the stress I developped throughout the years, having to restart whole levels over and over again, I have also developped anger. I get infuriated when I have to restart when I haven't saved in 10 minutes or so.

Nowadays, if the game doesn't have a save fonction, you can bet your tuchas I'm not gonna touch it. I can't recall any game (that had no save fonction) that was good enough for me to play to put aside my fear.

I'm the kind of player that saves every second or so… I HATE having to do something I have already done.

I also like to rant. Sometimes… :)

Acleacius December 22nd, 2006 05:49

magerette
No you have it exactly right, it's nothing but their egos. :)

Corwin
"having to wade through 10 minutes of dialogue and cut scenes first,"
Oh man that's bad, defiantly banged some keys over that. ;)
What about not being able to skip cutscenes that last 5 or 10 min you seen before that you can't skip! :(
What did Ken Levine say in that interview lately about that, "We hate you, stop forcing us to watch your cutscenes.".
Hehe. :)

JemyM
I did the same thing. :)

enodenroH
Hehe, reminds me of playing in arcades and pizza parlors before we had PCs.

JemyM December 23rd, 2006 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by enodenroH (Post 13517)
A lot were console games from the Nintendo era. Mega man, Contra and the likes. These were very popular 2D sidescrollers in the late 80s and early 90s… Because I am no good with hand eye coordination, it took me quite some time to finish them.

I remember thoose years. I believe we could bother about replaying the same over and over because frankly we did not have any alternative, and a whole game could be finished in 20-30 minutes if you knew how.

Today games have alot in common with movies and it can take several days to get through one of them.

The Wanderer December 23rd, 2006 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by JemyM (Post 13682)
I remember thoose years. I believe we could bother about replaying the same over and over because frankly we did not have any alternative, and a whole game could be finished in 20-30 minutes if you knew how.
Today games have alot in common with movies and it can take several days to get through one of them.

Yup. Once you got the hang of them you could manage to complete them in less than an hour indeed.
Once I played a few Nintendo emulated games on my PC. Their file size weren't even 1 MB!!! Some of them were just over 500 K!!! And they sold them for over 50$!!!
Well, they were high tech at the time I guess…

It's a good thing that today's games have a save feature otherwise I'd either not be playing crpg's anymore or I'd be in a mental institution. :lol:

Alrik Fassbauer December 26th, 2006 03:09

I loved the RTS called Z. It was really fun. But is was *very* difficult.

I once read why it was so : Because one of the devs said, they knew the game so well they didn't realize how difficult it was for gamers …

Well, the kind of add-on let you chose a difficulty level … - to bad that was windows only back then. I know from an e-mail that the devs had created an DOS-version of the add-on, but GT interactive wanted it to be windows. So they never released the DOS version of it.

Combined with a fixed resolution that never let me zoom close enough to actually see the robots behaving (or being run over by a tank :D ) my interest quickly dropped on that.

GothicGothicness December 28th, 2006 02:40

I think saving should be banned from all RPG's! Diablo 2 style.

Now you can just make a choice.. and if you are not happy with it load, and make another choice. During dialogues that are supposed to be tricky to complete or riddles you just load and save until you get it right. In the mini-games you just win, get the gold, save, load again, play get the gold save, repeat. If you die you just load, never lose any XP never any items. If you commit a crime and get caught you just load your save. This also removes all excitement from the game.. oooops I died okay I will just load no problem.

HORRIBLE! Saving really puts a high restriction on RPG's and ruins them in many ways. HOWEVER, the way it is done in Fable and Bard's Tale is NOT the way to do it. It sounds like the majority of you disagree… but at least you have to agree I have some valid points above!

Corwin December 28th, 2006 03:01

Valid only for your playstyle!! Most people would find re-playing large sections of a game very tedious and frustrating if that were necessary every time they died for example. If I wanted that 'joy'. I'd play FPS games where you only save after completing a level.

I tend to agree with your point about consequences of choices, though I understand some people save and replay choices simply to 'see all the game has to offer'!! I guess the bottom line is to play any game in a manner YOU enjoy!! :)

Cormac December 28th, 2006 03:06

You do have some good points. Personally I never save before opening a chest with random treasure in it so I'm certain to get the best stuff or before an important meeting with a (an?) NPC, for example; I try to live with my (often bad) decisions.
However I think it's necessary to be able to save everywhere, simply because games nowadays are awfully buggy, and at times they crash, etc., and losing one's progress so that you need to replay a part of the game is rather disheartening.

roqua December 28th, 2006 03:23

Anytime saves are for women, unless the game is ironman. So I guess anytime save/reload is for women, and anytime save with ironman is good. There is nothing like knowing if your party wipes that is it. Playing a game with anytime save/reload is like playing poker for air. There is no risk and no reward. In order to "win" or feel like you accomplished something, or to even feel fear or worry, there must be risk. Games have turned into a mindless tedium that you just have to get through. No skill, no thought, no plan, just keep clicking and you will get to the end. That is hippy crap. Why waste your time? At least if you watch TV you don't have to worry about bad joints from clicking too much.

What is really disheartening is buying a AAA rpg, putting it on the highest challange rating, and blowing through combat like katrina in LA. Why even bother? I can beat every rpg released from Bio by putting the mouse in my asscrack and dancing to the oldies with Richard Simmons.

No pain no gain. No risk no reward. No challenge no accomplishment. No sacrifice no honor. Etc. You guys need to man up, install ToEE or Wiz, click on ironman, and see what good is.


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