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July 27th, 2011, 05:40
Let me start by offering my heartfelt sympathies with the Norwegian people in this time of sorrow.

Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
I always knew you lefties were nuckin' futz.

One aspect of this that interests me is how the Enlightened Euro opinions on crime and punishment are going to hold up. There was an article that popped up very briefly on the AP about Norway's judicial already having to defend the 21 year thing. That article has since disappeared and I was unable to find it again. Closest I got was this:…192223814.html

There's always been that snooty condescending attitude about America's "uncivilized" approach to punishing criminals, and I'm very interested to see how it plays out now that the blood is on Euro soil. Euro user comments on various articles I've read have been downright vengeful (not that I have a problem with that). It will be very interesting to see how the "enlightened" theories hold up when they get bumped against a gruesome reality.
I really don't think that this will change our attitudes towards crime and punishment a whole lot, once people get a little distance to this they'll realize that harsher punishment probably wouldn't have deterred this maniac from committing this heinous deed. And as has already been pointed out we have mechanisms in play that allow us to more or less lock people like this up and throw away the key. Forvaring in Norway or criminal psychiatric care in Sweden which usually translates into a longer incarceration than what would have been the case if the person would have been given the max sentence for the crime in regular prison (don't know the last statement holds up in Norway but it wouldn't surprise me if it was the same there, our socities are very similar after all).

Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Ah, but Euro prisons are rehabilitating country clubs according to y'all. How could there be prison violence like that in the middle of all that enlightenment?
Not quite, much like in the US a perpetrator gets put in a different prison depending on what crime they've committed. Our low security prisons aren't very harsh (according to a guy I know who got a one year stint for distributing alcohol to minors), but they don't hold a lot of dangerous people. Higher security prisons are worse if nothing else by merit of the people incarcerated there, being locked up with a bunch of violent offenders is never going to be very nice even if prison officials try to mitigate circumstances. But I doubt that Breivik would be locked up with the general population, most likely he'd be put in a ward with sexual offenders and others who have committed acts that make locking them up with "regular" criminals deemed to be too much of risk to their wellbeing.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Well it seems like Glenn Beck has managed to thoroughly embarrass himself with a completely obtuse comment on the situation.
In all honesty I find his Hitler Jugend likening to be a lot less disturbing than what he goes on to say later on (about five minutes in) in that excerpt.

Sorry about the tangents, I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about European penal practices or Glenn Becks tenuous grasp of logic, facts and reality.

conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evil, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.

rational, adj. Devoid of all delusions save those of observation, experience and reflection.
-Ambrose Bierce, The Devils Dictionary
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