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July 9th, 2012, 16:44
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I haven't forgotten. In fact, I can partially explain the biological roots of the traits high intelligence, high openness, high conscientiousness and low agreeableness that creates an individual who not only breaks expectations but persist in doing so, where as each of these traits have a great variation within gender.
I fail to see why we should disagree, then.
The problem is that you are blowing smoke and you may not even be aware of it. What you say is that genes matter, but fail to mention where it matters to the situation at hand. You follow preconceived cultural assumptions about gender and preconceived cultural assumptions that there are gene-driven gender differences, and then you state "genes matter", not noting that you took a huge leap.
Not really. I said I don't need to talk about genes (use biology) to prove how wrong you are. I could start babbling about genes, hormones and biological abnormalities, but are you going to listen, or are you going to dismiss them altogether by statements like 'why should I listen to your genes'? You have answered that question yourself.
And about the cultural assumptions, I personally believe it's you that are influenced by them. Correct me if I am wrong, but judging by what you said about genes and how humanity has broken free from them(!), I have come to the conclusion that your thoughts are based on religious indoctrination, of a kind which tries to brainwash people into believing that human body and 'soul' (or mind) are two separate things, that the soul can exist without the body, it's not influenced by the body, or at least by strengthening the soul, we can break free from the limitations of our body (or break free from the genes, as you put it)!
I haven't stated otherwise. What I did state is that people are attracted by different things even when heterosexual. Two heterosexuals may not have much in common in what they are attracted to and it's not entirely in the genes. The way sexuality changes over time is interesting but it's another topic.
That's only one side of the coin, but the problem (as I understand it) is that you think genes look like little volume controls which may be high in one sex, and low in another, and it has minor effects on a specimen.
That's not the case, however. Genes act more like little on/off switches most of the time, and sometimes some of those switches don't exist in females at all. Existence of certain genes can influence animal development/behavior in drastic ways. Some of those genes exist only on the Y chromosome, which exists only in male specimens of our species. A good example would be the development of sexual organs in men, which is induced by genes on the Y chromosome. The sexual organs affect our behavior in more than one way. Directly (by producing hormones, for example) or indirectly (penis envy, for example). While training or culture can help bypassing the latter, the former can not be bypassed. If by 'breaking away from the genes' you are actually referring to the latter, you haven't seen the big picture yet, and if you are referring to the former, you are very wrong. I hope I haven't been blowing smoke this time around.

=== EDIT ===
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
If this is true, then it would explain almost everything in xes related aspects of human nature, including the want of women to "monopolize" men, the men's wish to "prove themselves worthy" and amass wealth, and so on.
While I find the article most interesting, bribing females by hand can not be the only reason of human becoming bi-pedal. Other theories suggest that our ancestors' behavior pattern changed. In order to attract females, they started using their brains. Specimens with larger brains and more intelligence were more successful, they survived, thrived and become more intelligent. Higher intelligence allowed more efficient methods of communication and use of tools by hands (one would be bribing females in order to have sex, but there are more explanations, like using tools for hunting and finding that food) which lead to bi-pedal walking, evolution of hands and the ability to talk.
Last edited by blackcanopus; July 9th, 2012 at 17:20.
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