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December 26th, 2012, 15:08
I agree with you that XCom is not an RPG, but I still think experience levels are an RPG element. Chess had a progression element, and experience levels are a progression element. However, experience is a very specific kind of progression element, which has just happened to become completely dominant. I mean, monopoly has a progression element (money), but that doesn't mean I think it introduced experience levels. If you can find a pre-D&D wargame where rookies become veterans by way of combat, I'll withdraw my argument. I'm legitimately interested in this, as, like I said, I literally was looking into this a few weeks back to make your exact argument.

As for the "wargame" you're referencing, let me put it this way: This wargame that introduced experience levels and other RPG elements.. what was it called? You know, after it was standardized and written down? What was it called again?

Keep in mind, Chainmail did -not- have these elements. These experience levels were introduced on-the-fly in an attempt to make the experience more personal and dynamic. He then standardized these rules and released it as -something-, alongside the talent behind Chainmail (Gygax). What was it again?

Edit: To spin it yet another way: You're emphasizing that experience levels were introduced in wargames. However, the "wargame" you're referencing was basically the exact transition point between wargames and RPGs. It's when they took wargame mechanics (Chainmail) and introduced brand new RPG mechanics (experience levels, etc.). Then.. they released it. As the first RPG.

I mean, it was exactly the introduction of these mechanics that -made- D&D the first RPG rather than a straight wargame. Unless you're claiming that D&D is actually a wargame, and all pen and paper RPGs are wargames..? If not, how is D&D any more of an RPG and any less of a wargame than this "pre-D&D wargame" you're referencing?
Last edited by killias2; December 26th, 2012 at 15:28.
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