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January 11th, 2013, 09:53
Originally Posted by mudsling3 View Post
Hilter was voted in by a large stupid majority, did they just voted him out? But I guess having a sheeple mentality does help, see no evil…out of sight, out of mind,

Not surprised, those who want to ban guns have this invincible aura about the gov.
The Nazi govenrment unfortunately had majority support in the german population pretty much throughout their rule. I wish I could point towards any evidence for a popular uprising against Nazi rule in Germany, but to our shame (I am German), there is none. It was not lack of guns in the population that allowed the Nazis to rule, it was many things, but mainly 1) the initial economic and political successes of Hitlers government 2) the ruthless control of information i.e. the media and constant propaganda at all levels and 3) maintaining a front of legality while effectively subverting the legal system.

(So my tip if you are worried about a corrupt government taking over: forget the guns, make sure you do everything you can to strengthen a free press and an independent legal system)

In fact the Nazi were militarist and quite pro-gun: Civil disarmament was actually first demanded by the Allies after WWI this was enacted by the Weimar republic govenment although very ineffecively because there was no gun registration at the time. The weapon laws and creation of gun registration were actually created in '28 during the Weimar republic in response to the widespread violence (often bordering on civil war like conditions) between armed militias of extremists on the left and right, that is, it was an attempt of the first democratic government of germany to maintain control. The Nazis themselves in fact tried an armed uprising in '23, several years ahead of their '33 grab for power that failed (Hitler-Putsch, often referred to as beer-hall putsch in the english literature).

Interestingly this law actually lifted the strict ban on weapons that had been in effect after WWI allowing the population to own guns for sport and hunting again (provided weapons were properly registered, the owner had a permit and so on), so it could be argued that it was actually a pro-gun law.

The Nazis merely prolonged these laws when they came into power, and like everything else started to subvert them and use them for their own ends, e.g. to confiscate weapons of Jews which was part of the general deprivation of Jews of their rights as Citizens. Although here again, there is no evidence of any plans for armed resistance among the Jewish population that I know of, in fact any such attempt would probably have been welcomed by the Nazis as an excuse to deport and murder the Jews even sooner. There is no indication, as I said above, that these confiscations were a major factor in allowing the Nazi government to control Germany. Weapon training was a regular part of the Hitler-Youth activities, and they were actively trained to prepare them for service as soldiers. (Crazy irish, You might have liked those lads, they were all ready to fight, too. And they lost).

Here is an english site on these issues, it's a bit superficial, but largely correct on the facts to the best of my knowledge: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

Incidentally despite what you guys fear from the anti gun lobby, I think the ONLY way you'll get strict gun laws in the US if the NRA pundits actually try to live up to their big words and attempt an armed uprising. So I would say "go ahead, MF, make my day" if it weren't for all the suffering that such a conflict would inevitably bring.

I think the thoughts that led to the second amendment make sense in the context of the time, and from the viewpoint of the revolutionaries of the American independence movement. But considering how much the situation has changed since then, those thoughts simply do not apply to today's reality.

Finally @Crazy irish - right, the military might be divided, and in fact that would be the ONLY thing that matters - your guns at home won't make a difference. Although I dearly hope you will be spared another Civil war.
Last edited by GhanBuriGhan; January 11th, 2013 at 10:17.
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