Originally Posted by dteowner
OK, Pladio, allow me to summarize as well. Keep in mind that I'm also responding to the broader issue here, so my answer might not line up word-for-word with your exact position. I'll try to keep it close.
Even if you propose gun control as part of a broader initiative (WHICH YOU DID NOT until faced with the Chicago evidence)
, it has been demonstrated that your proposal failed in the real world.
Now, the gun control folks haven't said jack shit about poverty, and you know it. "Take away the guns and you take away the opportunity." Throwing it in there after you've gotten a logic wedgie is sloppy and disingenuous. But let's allow it for a moment.
Presumably, over the 28 years where Chicago had a gun ban in place, you folks have been working on poverty as well, yes? Let's call all those fantastic ideas, programs, activities, and feel-goodie hubbub, X.
Now, unless you've got a major unveiling waiting in the wings, you intend to continue doing X, yes? After all, that's working on the problem of poverty. For my purposes, I don't give two shits what is contained in X. You get full credit for doing it, you get impressive medals for its rousing success, and you get full credit for continuing it forever and ever going forward.
guns + X = baseline quantity of gun-related violence
gun ban + X = HIGHER QUANTITY OF GUN VIOLENCE
Let's say that you feel that X is, in truth, a dismal failure. For clarity, let's call that, Y. We can even say that Y means we didn't do shit about poverty, wealth distribution, mental health, and phases of the moon—whatever it is in that completely undefined lump that you're so hung up on.
guns + Y = level of gun related violence
gun ban + Y = HIGHER LEVEL OF GUN VIOLENCE
So, unless you've got new things to offer that make up X, all your whining about outside factors makes no difference to the topic whatsoever and the continued attempts to hang a gun ban on it would have to be considered, at the most generous possible, misdirection.