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February 6th, 2013, 14:00
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Oh, look - Pibbur had the energy to educate you out of your ignorance:
I'm not trying to educate any one. What I wrote was not (despite mentioning him) directed at BN, it wasn't directed at anyone. At least i didn't attend to.

My statistics are from Norway, and can't be directly transferred (correct English?) to the US. For instance, the frequency of murders are low in Norway' on the average 30 pr year in a population of 5 million (for obvious reason we must exclude 2011. The number of people Breivik killed corresponds to 2 1/2 "normal" years). Armed robbery is rare, so is armed assaults. I would think that alchohol plays a somewhat lesser role in murder cases in the US, but it should still be a significant factor. OTOH I would guess that alchohol was more important as a cause of traffic accidents, due to more liberal driving and drinking laws. But that's just guessing.

For the record, when it comes to fighting, people who themselves are drunk ar far more likely to be assulted by drunk people than people who are sober. I wonder why….

Let me elaborate a bit on second hand smoking. I don't doubt that even small doses of second hand smoking have health effects. But the risk for long term effects from random exposure has to be very small (and we readily expose ourselves to activities with higher risks without any concern). Data comes from long term exposure. To reliably estimate the effect of short term/random exposure, we would have to examine a representable set of thousands of patients, following them over a period of 10-20 years (lung cancer takes that long to develop).

To put this into perspective (correct English?), it was recently published that the risk of brain tumors in children receiving CT examinations of the head is twice that of children without CT exams. Behind that result is 180 000 children followed over a 20 year period. That's reliable data. BTW, unlike random exposure to SHS, it's very easy to quantify the exposure to CT examinations. (To those of you who now is worried because of that exam your child had - the risk of brain tumors in children is very low. A doubling of the risk, correspond to a very small increase in absolute numbers.)

Another study involving 1 million women over more than 20 years found an on the average 10 year reduction in expected life span in female smokers compared to non smokers. We're talking about heavy smokers (I would guess a daily consumption of 20 cigarettes or more). That's also reliable data, and it's compatible with other stdies. I haven't data for men, but I guess the effect is somewhat lower, because in general smoking is more dangerous to women). On the bright side, the study showed that quitting before the age of 30 result in a very small effect, and quitting at 40 reduce the effect from 10 years to 1 year.

It makes sense banning smoking at work and in bars and restaurants. It would also make sense to prohibit smoking at home and in cars, but that may be invading the private sphere too much. I haven't made up my mind. Banning smoking outside would mainly target smoking as a nuisance. Personally, I would welcome that - I really dislike the smell. But I'm not sure if that's enough to ban it.

Personally, I would be more concerned walking by a group of drunk people on the street, than a group of people smoking, even if the risk of the drunkards unprovoked attacking a sober person is small. That may be partially, but not completely, due to irrational fear, and it doesn't make me advocate banning drinking.

Pibbur who, when he started working as an intern in radiology, was shocked by the number of xrays he saw showing lung cancer in patients, mostly women, below 40.

PS. One more piece of statistics for you: Facial fractures are often associated with fractures of the 4th metacarpal bone in the palm of the hand. In two different patients. DS.

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Last edited by pibbur who; February 6th, 2013 at 21:43.
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