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July 22nd, 2013, 15:34
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Once again (I expect this needs to be repeated around 10-12 times) - no one is saying genes aren't affecting people.

We're saying you can't establish with any kind of certainty how these genes affect actual behavior - or to what degree they're involved in any given criminal.

You can detect a correlation between certain defects or "genes" and violent behavior - but only in the most general sense. You have no idea if those genes are the only difference - and you certainly have no idea what to do about it.

You're saying "all criminals are bad" - and yet you're trying to convince people they're born that way.

That's just as bad as being a racist bigot - which you like to claim everyone is.

Again - if people are born bad, then why do they deserve punishment? Is that what you consider fair and just?

It's not clear and it's not "accepted scientific theory" that murderers are born murderers.

That's your own personal pet theory with absolutely no tangible "evidence" to back it up.
This is what's called "evidence" to explain how science works again.

If you actually read the article and read the citations which you obviously didn't you'd see that there's a strong correlation between this gene and violence, as well as a clear reason why that's the case. So yes we do know how it's affecting them and why. Repeat sequences control how much of a coded gene get expressed, so it lowers the amount of the protein produced. Can't get any simpler than that, especially since we already know what happens when you take drugs that have this same effect.

You either believe in genetics and science or don't, you seem to want to pick and choose.

And yes it's accepted, if you read the page you won't find lots of criticism. There's no valid criticism, if there were it would be listed especially as it seems controversial to some people.

You can repeat all you want but it's obvious you just don't know what you're talking about and can't be bothered to remedy your ignorance and just ignore any facts that you find inconvenient.

Of course there's more than one gene that causes behavior but we do know this affects behavior and exactly how. They have made mice with the faulty gene as well, guess how that turned out.

In fact they've done that with loads of brain genes. We do know exactly how many brain genes work. The coding genes are simple to figure out, they have different levels of a protein or different forms of it, many of which we have known about already for 70+ years like with MAO. Just a minute ago you denied that completely. It's clear you just don't know about it and as such you should stop backpedalling and start reading, and consider changing your opinion to be the one that is in line with reality.

There's other genes with correlation but no knowledge on how it works, this is a very simple case.

As far as what's fair or not, life is not fair, but no I don't think that punishing criminals is helpful, there's really no rehabilitating most of them either, unfortunately. Maybe drugs will help in the future but the picture is complicated enough that it's unlikely.
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