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September 19th, 2007, 17:44
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post

In either case, the timing of the move doesn't really say much about it.
The timing says a lot about it, but indeed doesn't, as I think you meant, really prove anything about the motivation. It's nice to see a non-cynical view from you, Prime J and therefore I'll agree that Kerry may have had an epiphany about the evils of war that just happened to coincide with the rising popularity of the anti-war movement.

IOW, had he and Lieberman been elected, I'm pretty sure America would be more or less where it is now — except that he would be taking the blame with the real architects of the problems coming out smelling like a rose.
Agreed; though there might be different profiteers, commanders and events, the end result might not be much different. On the other hand, there was some anti-war sentiment in the early part of Bush's second term; it's possible Kerry might have been able to build a powerbase then, and with the loss of the Republican majority in Congress, there would be at least the potential to listen to reason now, since Congress is screaming for troop withdrawals and would support any president who initiated them I think.

It's impossible to tell, really, how the cards would have played out. I know that your statement has made me regret even more not voting against Bush, because actually it might have made a difference.

I wrote this (in a completely different context) in November, 2004:


So, my bearded lefty friends on both sides of the Atlantic: weep not, for it is better this way. Really. The shock of the fall ought to be enough to wake up even the American electorate. Come 2008 (or perhaps even sooner), and we might see Bush in a war crimes tribunal yet. Far better this way than having the left pay the price. It will be a sore lesson, but it will be learned — after all, it took all of a generation to forget Vietnam. And to my Republican friends (I know I have at least one), you'll come to your senses yet. I'm counting on you.
First, may I say your writing style has matured since 2004.

Next,I don't know about seeing Bush in a war crimes tribunal, but I guarantee he has gone from being golden to one of the most villified presidents in our history, and by people of all political affiliations. You're just as likely to hear violent criticism of Bush from the far right, the middle or the left right now. He seems bent on using this "lame duck" period to alienate as many segments of the political base as possible in order to push his agenda through—his "legacy."

I also agree that this lesson needed to be learned, and that it may indeed be better this way. I don't think though, that you'll ever see a time when an attack like 9-11 won't result in a defensive retaliation (unless, of course, we become too conflicted and feeble to make one.) That's where at least the start of this war differed from Viet Nam, and how the political machine was able to turn it to account.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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