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March 2nd, 2008, 01:14
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
No, I haven't noticed a general trend like that. It's certainly been bandied about Fallout 3, by Bethsoft and the gaming press that's repeated their PR.
Well…do you read the likes of GameTrailer comments? Or even Quarter to Three or Through the Looking Glass forums? Obviously it's incidental comments since I'm not that widely read on non-Fallout topics, but hell if it wasn't pushed with Fallout, and hell if it's pushed again with Mass Effect. Doesn't that reviewers opening paragraphs come down to "you don't need to like RPGs, you can be immersed!"?

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Neither is technically superior to the other. Both are a big part of the experience of their respective films. Both approaches have been used in films that are complete rubbish, and in other films that are very good.
You made this original point and I got it.

My counter-point was (and I'll note here it was actually a question and not a statement): isn't "immersiveness" really only useful when coupled with emotional engagement? Isn't "immersiveness" defined as a visceral experience (and you'll notice by woges' post above yours that not everyone looks at it that way, something I noted before I find hard in this debate (different definitions per individual)) useless an sich, needing supplementary design approaches to help it out? I'm not denying that it's useful coupled with those design approaches, I'm saying it's not or shouldn't be as dominant a design goal as it is now.
Again: question, not a statement. You answered a question, but not the question I was asking.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Conversely, if you don't believe that it can ever, under any circumstances, contribute anything of value to any game, ever, then you're being as silly as your "first-person supremacists" — you're denying the validity of that gameplay element as absolutely as you claim they're denying the validity of isometric, or turn-based, or whatever.
PJ, the trouble with talking with you about this topic is that I get a feeling that I'm constantly fighting not to get pulled down a slippery slope. I'm leaning backward as far as I can not to say anything that'll set you off, yet it keeps happening. You're extremely sensitive about this topic, and have a tendency to interpret anything I say in the worst possible light.
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