Another shooting - 20 children killed

dteowner said:

Unless the subject changed when I wasn't looking, we're actually not talking about the mentally ill at this point. I believe that group was carved out of the picture a while back as a special situation. We're talking about Joe Sixpack being able to responsibly own firearms. Or at least I thought that's what we were talking about now.

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Geven that a lot of murders happen under alcohol influence, I would especially not want Joe Sixpack to handle a gun.

pibbur who could not resist the pun. And ....

dteowner said:

So if I tell you water is wet, but you can't find statistics in a (1)textbook that tell you that, you'll claim that (2)you know better and I'm a simpleton. Got it.

Maybe it's an (2)enlightened (3)Euro thing, but over here we're not real big on "can't". When people say "can't" they really mean "don't wanna" or "not worth the effort it would take". Of course, you'll probably be hard-pressed to find statistics about that in one of your (3)Euro (1)textbooks, so you can safely (1)disregard that pesky real world sticking its nose in again. If you feel better saddling people with endless limitations and telling people that they'll never achieve because you simply know they can't, then I sure as hell hope that you stay safely buried in your (2)ivory tower and never actually have (1)a real person come to you for help.

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Thought-terminating clichés.
1: Education/research/science isn't real
2: Knowledge is elitism
3: You say that because you are in category X

I do not feel I have the time to deal with this mess at the moment, but you are basically amputating your brain with this crap reasoning and since you are basically saying you aren't interested in learning anything at all we aren't having a discussion so I do not feel interested in continuing this.

At this point in time I would be happy to see assault rifles, and any weapon that allows anyone to load a magazine of more than 6 bullets. Had this shooter not been able to shoot so many so fast, maybe more would still be alive.

Human behavior cannot be changed immediately, but we can make this change now. Yes, we need to address our lack of mental health care, our lack of acceptance that any mental illness is no more a stigma then having a heart condition, and the lack of willingness and education to recognize when it is time to talk to get help.
This one hits us all a bit harder because they were children, sitting in school, a place we all grew up feeling was safe. Knowing the why right now will not make it any less a shock to our senses. No numbers, no diagnosis, nothing will give us back what has been taken, a sense of boundaries where the evil is not supposed to ever show up.

CM your post has a serious case of whiteout.

Thanks, not sure what I did there but just changed it to cyan.

Hmm not much better for those of us who use the white background setting for the site. Or it could be my eyes.

I guess it's time I sample the darkside.

Guess some parts of America don't agree with y'all:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...rado-record-highest-background-174415554.html

The talk of new gun control measures that has followed Friday's mass shooting in a Newtown, Conn., elementary school has gun buyers rushing to the nearest store and picking up new weapons, according to gun store owners and state police background check information.

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Counterproductive effects:

Paul Decker, the owner of Hunters' Heaven in Hayes, Va., said he saw a big spike in sales over the weekend, with many customers buying the AR type of rifle allegedly used in the Newtown shooting. Gun control advocates want AR and other semi-automatic rifles banned, returning to the Bill Clinton-era policy that was the law of the land from 1994 to 2004.

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Decker also said his business boomed in the year after Obama's election: He experienced a 50 percent increase in sales. "The '08 election was like the Brady Bill, the Crime Bill and Y2K all wrapped together and then doubled," he said, referencing two pieces of gun control legislation.

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The gun fetishists are in a panicked feeding frenzy, no surprise there. This has nothing to do with liberty.

Lock and load!

dteowner said:

Guess some parts of America don't agree with y'all:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...rado-record-highest-background-174415554.html



Counterproductive effects:

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dte ... are you trying to prove that redneck America is full of gun zealots, racists, religious intolerants and so on? Um ... the world knows this, as do both coasts who are embarrassed with the 'honey boo boo majority' of the deep south ...

txa1265 said:

dte … are you trying to prove that redneck America is full of gun zealots, racists, religious intolerants and so on? Um … the world knows this, as do both coasts who are embarrassed with the 'honey boo boo majority' of the deep south …

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Poor populations in all parts of the country tend towards exhibiting uneducated behavior. Such as claiming that a state in the midwest is in the deep south.

txa1265 said:

dte … are you trying to prove that redneck America is full of gun zealots, racists, religious intolerants and so on? Um … the world knows this, as do both coasts who are embarrassed with the 'honey boo boo majority' of the deep south …

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In this case I was merely reporting, although I did find the irony worth noting. Not sure what I did to deserve the insulting tirade, but whatever.

CrazyIrish said:

Poor populations in all parts of the country tend towards exhibiting uneducated behavior. Such as claiming that a state in the midwest is in the deep south.

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Honey Boo Boo is in Macon Georgia. Please check your geography. That is the problem when trying to insult someone while being wrong...

On related news:

Some kid brought a .22 to school today and held it against a class-mate's head and threatened to shoot her if she told on him. He was encouraged to bring it by his parents to keep safe after last Friday.

Some people are probably not totally sickened by that. THAT is scary.

dteowner said:

In this case I was merely reporting, although I did find the irony worth noting. Not sure what I did to deserve the insulting tirade, but whatever.

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Apologies ... skimmed the thread and misinterpreted your intent.

"In the US, mass child killings are tragedies. In Pakistan, mere bug splatsBarack Obama's tears for the children of Newtown are in stark contrast to his silence over the children murdered by his drones"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/us-killings-tragedies-pakistan-bug-splats

Domestically, remember Waco? so some massacres of children are OK. When the FBI and BATF burned 26 children to death at Waco, and 50 parents and other adults, too, conservatives and liberals cheered. Anyone expressing sympathy for the murdered was an "extremist" to be condemned by the SPLC and MSM.

Gun control is appealing to a bunch of mass murderers to take guns away from people who have done nothing wrong. See the reality yet? and where was your outrage? Look deeper if you really give a dime at all.

txa1265 said:

Honey Boo Boo is in Macon Georgia. Please check your geography. That is the problem when trying to insult someone while being wrong…

On related news:

Some kid brought a .22 to school today and held it against a class-mate's head and threatened to shoot her if she told on him. He was encouraged to bring it by his parents to keep safe after last Friday.

Some people are probably not totally sickened by that. THAT is scary.

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The article referenced colorado & virginia. Honey boo boo was your own reference, but nice try.

Anyone that would send a minor to school with a firearm is, at best, an idiot. The people that are okay with that have straw coming out of their sleeves. Again, nice try.

CrazyIrish said:

The article referenced colorado & virginia. Honey boo boo was your own reference, but nice try.

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There is no 'nice try' - I used a singular phrase which was entirely internally consistent. You are obviously not worth discussing that sort of thing with ... you were simply wrong, but in an attempt to belittle me need to be crass with your wrongness.

CrazyIrish said:

Anyone that would send a minor to school with a firearm is, at best, an idiot. The people that are okay with that have straw coming out of their sleeves. Again, nice try.

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Actually arming kids is pretty much in line or not far off from the general chorus of the gun zealots we have heard. More guns, more people with guns, more guns everywhere - that was their FIRST response. Meet the potential of armed threat with a greater armed preparedness. Responsibility and moderation were second at best. Certainly this is an extreme response, but are you debating that it is only slightly off what they were saying on Fox News even as they were carting out bodies?

It seems as though having gun ownership entrenched as a constiutional right is a receipe for disaster. "Forget food dude, I want to get me a thundestick! yeeha!" Enshrining rights like freedom of association, healthcare (!) etc in a constitution makes sense - but owning a gun, as a basic 'right'? And the rabid determination with which people defend this and insist that it is indispensible is mind boggling. How can it be your 'right' to buy an assault rifle, which is posisble in some states? yes, criminals can - and will - get weapons, and probably heavy calibre weapons. But that happens all over the world, and somewhow people deal with it without a constitutional provision. Easy access to weapons *must* surely make it easier for these killing sprees to happen? Occassionally some anomaly like Anders Brevik arises, but just look at the rise in mass murders in the USA over the last while…something is seriously broken. And these are not murders committed by drug cartels, these are 'average' (if deranged) people - with easy - and constitutionally accommodated - access to weapons. But it seems there is no political will to tackle this issue. Everyone is afraid of pissing off voters - we have the same thing here. No such thing as taking a moral path - all just to get votes. At the very least, it should become very hard to get anything of high calibre and firing rate.

It certainly makes no sense to me. Do you have a right to rape people or commit murder? No you don't. How about distributing drugs? Whoops, another liberty down.

So, what is it about firearms that makes having them so different? You're not living in a free society in terms of being able to do anything you want. Far from it.

Having rights needs to make sense on the grander scale, not just the personal one.

You can't change human nature and you can't remove the risk of breakdowns or sudden killing sprees by way of magic or through population "control", it's ludicrous. But if you remove guns from the equation, or MINIMISE availability - you will save a lot of lives. No one is saying that guns are the problem - the problem is when you combine human nature with having guns available in a place where the standard of living is so atrocious for so many people. Not just in terms of money, but in terms of self-image tied to nothing but the most hollow of values, like being popular based on how much empty attention you can get.

A sick society with access to convenient and deadly weaponry is not a great thing.

It's really fairly simple, DArt. You Euros feel that government is a good thing. It provides for you and gives each and every citizen a kiss goodnight at bedtime and there is much rejoicing. We (or at least the targets of your derision, for whom I'm speaking) do not trust government and do not particularly like it. That radically alters one's views on what "free society" really means.

Y'all are also using sloppy logic by painting all gun owners as the loose cannons you need them to be to justify your indignation. There are millions of gun owners out there that acquired their weapons legally, are trained in their use, maintain them properly, and properly respect their lethality. There's absolutely no justification to take weapons from those people. You're blindly casting an overly broad net, and treating anyone that doesn't agree like some sort of mouthbreather while completely ignoring all attempts to point out your flawed logic.

Allow me to demonstrate what you're really doing. Criminals use their penis to rape. There are plenty of impressive textbooks that claim that not only is that the tool, but also the justification in and of itself. Your response is that we should remove all penises from everyone.

Yes, your proposal really is that stupid. Walk thru the logic--it's the exact same nonsense y'all are using to "prove" that guns should be taken away.