US Now Have A Total Gangster Government

Rithrandil · July 5, 2009

Exactly, JDR. So yeah, event happened, but guy was in the wrong and an idiot and clearly didn't understand exactly what the 4th Amendment prevents.

Edit: Also, too I like how he's screaming about how he's a "pastor" and that's supposed to mean something to anyone, including law enforcement officers. Since pastors are *such* upstanding individuals and it's not like anyone could claim to be one if stopped.

Oxlar · July 7, 2009

Although one could argue that there was non-consensual extraction of blood. :biggrin:

Regardless, he was severrely mistreated during that incident. I would be filing for a law suit. Even someone that has broken the law isn't normally treated with such hostility.

Rithrandil · July 7, 2009

I don't know, they warned him to close his eyes, and he clearly was filming the whole damn thing to make a point out of it. They warned him what would happen.

Oxlar · July 7, 2009

He wasn't bleeding because he didn't close his eyes.

Rithrandil · July 7, 2009

He was bleeding because they forced him to the ground onto the broken glass caused by his own stupidity. That's standard procedure.

Oxlar · July 7, 2009

Oh yeah, he was the epitome of defiance and resistance. I'm pretty sure he even had a baby at knife point.

Rithrandil · July 7, 2009

Oxlar said:
Oh yeah, he was the epitome of defiance and resistance. I'm pretty sure he even had a baby at knife point.

They warned him for twenty or thirty minutes that he had to get out of the car. He refused. They told him they'd have to break the windshield if he did not comply. He refused.

So yes, he resisted lawful orders given to him by an officer of the peace, resisted arrest, and was treated accordingly under the law.

dteowner · July 7, 2009

Not sure if this is the same video or even the same clown, but in the previous one of these mudsling posted, the guy made very effort to provoke an incident and then screamed like a schoolgirl once the (surprisingly patient) authorities got tired of his schtick. If you go looking for trouble, it's pretty stupid to complain when it finds you. If the cops took his crap for 20 minutes before kicking his butt, that meets the "held to a higher standard" bar in my book.

woges · July 8, 2009

Here's some spin for you dte. The party that wiped out unions, social security, medical care, and more than likely a host of other levelling institutions are complaining about 1 backhander; while they insure their own well-being at the expense of others. Lefties are such an inconvenience - kill em all!

dteowner · July 8, 2009

I don't follow, woges. I'll be happy to take up the gauntlet but I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

Rithrandil · July 8, 2009

woges said:
Here's some spin for you dte. The party that wiped out unions, social security, medical care, and more than likely a host of other levelling institutions are complaining about 1 backhander; while they insure their own well-being at the expense of others. Lefties are such an inconvenience - kill em all!

Uhm...unions, social security, medical care, etc are all still around...

magerette · July 9, 2009

I'm lost as well, woges. Who's the backhander? Or did you actually respond on topic to the very beginning of this thread which I can't even remember now...

Oxlar · July 9, 2009

Rithrandil said:
They warned him for twenty or thirty minutes that he had to get out of the car. He refused. They told him they'd have to break the windshield if he did not comply. He refused.

So yes, he resisted lawful orders given to him by an officer of the peace, resisted arrest, and was treated accordingly under the law.

I'm sorry, but that is no exscuse for how they treated him. Since when does conversation become an exscuse for a police brutality incident? He was completely non violent. All he did was sit in his car. I bet if this guy was black, the whole media world along with jessie jackson and al sharpton would be marching on Arizona in the name of civil rights.

dteowner · July 9, 2009

Oxlar said:
I'm sorry, but that is no exscuse for how they treated him. Since when does conversation become an exscuse for a police brutality incident? He was completely non violent. All he did was sit in his car. I bet if this guy was black, the whole media world along with jessie jackson and al sharpton would be marching on Arizona in the name of civil rights.

While I'll agree with your last statement, I'd like to know your alternative. After 20 minutes of putting up with this guy's foolishness, what should the police have done? He clearly wasn't getting out of the car on his own. What should they do?

Rithrandil · July 9, 2009

Oxlar said:
I'm sorry, but that is no exscuse for how they treated him. Since when does conversation become an exscuse for a police brutality incident? He was completely non violent. All he did was sit in his car. I bet if this guy was black, the whole media world along with jessie jackson and al sharpton would be marching on Arizona in the name of civil rights.

It's not a conversation. He refused a direct, LEGAL order from a police officer merely to get it onto youtube. They warned him repeatedly for almost half an hour to get out of the car. They warned him they were going to break his windshield. He was refusing to comply with the officers. How do they know he wasn't crazy or wouldn't pull anything on them? If you resist orders and then resist arrest they're going to subdue you *for their own safety*.

I could just as easily say that if this guy was black or an Imam you wouldn't be caring as much, either, if you want to bring race or religion into this for some reason.

POLICE USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE: A CONCILIATION HANDBOOK FOR THE POLICE and THE COMMUNITY [url said:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crs/pubs/pdexcess.htm][/url]

For example, take the situation in which a person, who has done nothing wrong, is suddenly stopped by an officer. He or she may resent it. Consider the position of the officer, however, who is acting because the civilian, or his car, matches a description from a burglary or armed robbery a block away. In most cases, the officer will probably soon discover his mistake and be on his way. However, if the detainee resists physically, the situation could deteriorate and generate a complaint to be filed against the officer. While the police expect the subject to be cooperative in these situations, the public also expects the police to be courteous on such stops.

He resisted physically by refusing to step out of the car. They tasered him for twenty seconds and handcuffed him. It's not their fault the guy decided to let his windshield be broken and thus suffered injury due to the broken glass. Did they beat him with their nightsticks? Nope. This isn't Rodney King. He got tasered. Oh noze!

Oxlar · July 9, 2009

Did you just call me a racist? This happens every fucking time on this board. You and few others always take a conversation and make it personal. Its why I come here less and less. There is no middle ground with some of you people. Its I'm right. Your wrong. And if you don't see it my way, your a racist or a bigot.

My comment was merely pointing out the inconsistency with the defense of 'percieved' civil issues within our society and media. I never said anything about 'YOU'.

Fucking tired of this shit.

Rithrandil · July 9, 2009

Oxlar said:
Did you just call me a racist?

No, I'm pointing out the argument of "the media would be all over this if he was black" was flawed. He wasn't beaten. But you just called the media racist (or reverse racist, if you prefer).

Oxlar said:
This happens every fucking time on this board. You and few others always take a conversation and make it personal. Its why I come here less and less. There is no middle ground with some of you people. Its I'm right. Your wrong. And if you don't see it my way, your a racist or a bigot.

Once again, missed my point. You made that comment and turned it into a race issue. If you want to open that door, fine, but don't be angry when someone makes the counter-argument against you. The argument is invalid and irrelevant, and you made my point for me just now.

Oxlar said:
My comment was merely pointing out the inconsistency with the defense of 'percieved' civil issues within our society and media. I never said anything about 'YOU'.

Once again, not the point I was trying to make. My point was this isn't brutality and it's not the Rodney King incident, and trying to randomly inject a racial dimension to it is pretty nonsensical and dumb, and you just did *exactly* what you accuse the media/Jackson/Sharpton of doing: making an issue about race.

Oxlar said:
Fucking tired of this shit.

K.

dteowner · July 9, 2009

Rithrandil said:
No, I'm pointing out the argument of "the media would be all over this if he was black" was flawed. He wasn't beaten. But you just called the media racist (or reverse racist, if you prefer).

Not sure I would dismiss that one out of hand. While the media might not be reverse racist itself, they're more than happy to give Jesse and Al a pulpit for their blatant racism whenever an opportunity presents itself. I believe that Oxlar, rather than playing some race card, was pointing out that this situation would likely have been deemed such an opportunity had the dipshit been black instead of a WASP. The fact that race had absolutely no bearing on the situation (nor would have if the same events happened to Rodney King himself) would be completely ignored in the glorious media circus. If it bleeds, it leads, and never let the facts get in the way of a good story...

Corwin · July 9, 2009

Oxlar, if you can't take the heat, then stay out of the fire!! This is the P&R forum where we expect issues like racism to rear their ugly head. Don't blame this site if you visit such a forum; stick to the strictly gaming forums where these issues aren't raised, but don't enter a political discussion and then attack this site when you don't like someone's response. We offer this forum as an extra bonus and it's become very popular. However, it's not for everyone!!

Oxlar · July 9, 2009

Fine. I obviously don't fit into your clique. Its funny how your tone goes from 'repremanding me' for throwing heat in my personal defense in other threads to my skin just isn't thick enough, when one of your gang acts like ass. Total joke. Ha ha, the jokes on the outsider. Way to moderate. I'm sure you'll attract a large following.

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