TES Morrowind VS Oblivion

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purpleblob

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ok, I've tried morrowind before and I thought it's dull and boring so never even thought of playing it again. but my bf is big morrowind and oblivion fan and he has convinced me to play morrowind again. I'd like to play oblivion but my computer is not upto date so I cant. well, Im giving it a go with morrowind again.. although I'm so tempted to quit it now since I'm still in very early stage of the game where its very much boring. anyway, there are lots of elderscrolls fans out there... so I just though I'd ask few questions.

1. what morrowind mods can you guys recommend to me to make the game more interesting?

2. which one is better? morrowind or oblivion and why?
 
1. I prefer playing my games unmodded, but if you're not beyond destroying some of the charming ugliness of Morrowind by prettifying people, you should search out some of the body- and head mods around (Rhedd's Heads, Better Bodies etc.). I would recommend getting either the MW GotY edition or the Tribunal and Bloodmoon addons. If you play Morrowind with Tribunal, I recommend to start the addon quest immediately - at least the first part is significantly easier if you're still very low level (they introduced level scaling in Tribunal, but it only works for the expansion and not for the main game).

2. I prefer Morrowind because a) it's vast when compared to Oblivion, b) of its unique atmosphere, c) the territorial diversity when compared to Oblivion. All in all, I find Morrowind's visuals hauntingly beautiful in their strangeness. You have to (or can) do lots of running to and fro, which - due to restricted public transport - can be tedious at times, but it's still better than the teleporting feature of Oblivion which makes exploring kind of obsolete. In Daggerfall and Arena, teleporting was okay because these games covered a whole continent respectively parts of a continent.
 
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We discussed mods a while ago on this forum when another poster asked a similar question. since I'm too lazy to type out a whole list of mods again I'll give you a link to that thread:

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2368&highlight=Morrowind+mods

this is a good place to start anyway:
http://www.mwmythicmods.com/telesphoros.htm

As for question 2:

I've stuck a lot more time in MW then in OB, I know that for sure. The world is just a lot more interesting then in OB, with more factions, more lore, more politics, loads of little nooks and crannies to explore, and your actions had a lot more consequences.
I envy you if you have to discover all of that for the first time, I wish I could go back to that again.

These days I've come to the realisation that I've played Morrowind so often there is no quest I haven't done, no cave I haven't explored at least twice, no NPC I haven't spoken to (or killed :D ) and in all honesty, I uninstalled the game from my PC last week since I just can't get into it anymore :(
I tend to play Oblivion more often now because I like the sneak system better, and there are still places I haven't been and quests I haven't done.
But that's for when I want to run around for an hour or so and snipe at things, the game doesn't pull me in like Morrowind did where I would lose hours playing.
Morrowind is the better of the two by far.
 
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That depends on what kind of gaming experience you're after/prefer.

The type of gaming that Sorcha is describing seems to be the kind where you go into a gaming world and make up your own kind of gaming session, e.g. take out your frustrations on the inhabitants and go on a killing spree or just stroll about enjoying the scenery or go monster hunting or whatever. Just being in the gaming world is more important than the reason for being there. In my opinion, this kind of gaming experience is often preferred by people who enjoy returning to the gaming world over and over during the course of months, perhaps even years.

The other kind of gaming experience is the one where you strap yourself in and go along for the ride. The reason for playing (i.e. story elements and quests) are what drives the player to continue. For example, you explore an area because you're looking for a certain plant for the local alchemist or a certain monster/bandit for the local bounty hunter guild, etc.

Both types of gaming experience contain the same gameplay elements but in the former YOU create your reason for being there and in the later THEY (the developers) created your reason for being there.

Morrowind is vast, fairly empty and populated by a huge population of more or less lifeless drones and a few quest giving NPCs. It is the perfect setting for creating your own kind of experience but you have to be creative because the game is more or less one huge sandbox with rather limited incentive to continue the main story (or any side story for that matter).

Oblivion, on the other hand, is packed with a staggering amount of vastly different quests, from tiny fed-ex type quests to huge undertakings, taking you all around the landmass. Some quests are of the fairly straight forward, well known type while others are truly surprising, both in terms of twists but also in their execution. In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.

So, the question you've got to ask yourself is this: Do you want to create your own kind of gaming experience or do you want to go for the ride the developers have prepared for you?
 
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Question number 1:I played morrowind with no mods so i can't help you.I don't like mods.
Question number 2:I played morrowind the first time with an attitude of a hardcore gamer.I was trying to do all quests and enter all dungeons i saw.I managed to play it for 2 weeks.I uninstalled it saying what a crap game it is.After some months i played it again with a concept."I will be a fighter thief person with a neutral attitude.I did only quests that was close to my concept and suddently i loved the game.Morrowind was a new game.Great experience.
As for Oblivion.....i was playing it without mods until i got my first glass sword.I was very happy until i met a random bandit who asked me 100 golds.I said no,thinking it's time to use my new sword.Guess...he had one too.Then i tried it with many mods but some negative elements were there and i quit.Morrowind has no rival when it comes to oblivion
 
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Both types of gaming experience contain the same gameplay elements but in the former YOU create your reason for being there and in the later THEY (the developers) created your reason for being there.


I disagree with that analysis, the games aren't really that different as far as the way quest are presented, although I won't deny that Oblivion had more variety in the styles. I also never felt that I needed to create reasons to be there while playing Morrowind, the quest were varied and interesting enough to keep me going the whole time I played it.

The problem that I ran into rather, was the fact that I'm a completist who tries to do everything you can do in a game on a single playthrough. That's not really feasible in Morrowind, and I ended up getting burned out on my first attempt after 100+ hours, similar to what akarthis describes in the above post about his first experience with the game.


In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.


fatBastard(), did you use any mods when you played Oblivion? Just curious if you actually found vanilla Oblivion fun enough to play for 300+ hours.
 
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I'm avid player of Morrowind when the game came out - spent several hundreds hours either playing the original game or with various mods by community. I liked it because of the two gaming experiences as described by fatBastard(). To think that i had spent about 500 hours playing the game on and off for 2-3 years is kind of scary now O_O.

I'd like pick up the Oblivion someday to see whether Oblivion is better or worse compares to Morrowind, but not very likely as for now there are still 4-5 new games (The Witcher, Condemned, World of Conflict, Bioshock) left untouched .
 
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Morrowind is vast, fairly empty and populated by a huge population of more or less lifeless drones and a few quest giving NPCs. It is the perfect setting for creating your own kind of experience but you have to be creative because the game is more or less one huge sandbox with rather limited incentive to continue the main story (or any side story for that matter).
Funny, that was exactly what I thought of Oblivion.

Oblivion, on the other hand, is packed with a staggering amount of vastly different quests, from tiny fed-ex type quests to huge undertakings, taking you all around the landmass. Some quests are of the fairly straight forward, well known type while others are truly surprising, both in terms of twists but also in their execution. In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.
And that sounds a lot like Morrowind to me, except there weren't as many quirky quests like "fetch a guy who got stuck inside a painting".

I'd say both Morrowind and Oblivion were deeply flawed games but with Morrowind I at least got the feeling that the developers were actually trying to shoot for something great, whereas with Oblivion everything seemed like it was designed with the lowest common denominator/mediocrity in mind or like it was designed by committee.
 
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As is clearly evident, opinions differ from person to person. I'm not saying that Morrowind is bad in any way, but the fact of the matter is that even with a handful of mods (though mostly visual enhancement like the better bodies/faces, readable road signs, etc) I burned out after 80-100 hours when playing Morrowind, halfway through the building of my mansion and only about a third way through the main quest. By that time I was godlike. Nothing could touch me and since I was playing before the journal fix, I lost interest when I could no longer figure out where I needed to go, who I needed to see and what I had yet to do.

In Oblivion I sat down and started playing and didn't stop until there were no more quests in my journal and only THEN did I realize that I had spent more than 300 hours on the game. About halfway through I installed an interface enhancement mod (I can't remember the name, but I was one that came highly recommended by Rendelius from the RPGDot site), that reduced the inventory fonts and added an indicator for either arrows or weapon damage on the HUD. I got it on release day and sat down and played from start to finish with almost no interruptions so by the time I was finished, there wasn't really any mods worth mentioning yet, so I guess it was basically the Vanilla version I played.

The thing is that I'm also a bit of a completionist but at the same time the creative part of my brain doesn't work. I'm certain that if you opened up my skull there would be an empty space where the creative portion usually resides and inside you'd find an IOU note. It is therefore essential for me that there is a REASON for me to do things in games. I don't explore for the exploration's sake. I explore because I need to find something/one and that is what Oblivion provided for me but Morrowind failed to do to a certain degree. I often had to stop and wonder: "Where to now?" when I played Morrowind but there was always some kind of incentive in Oblivion. Even before leaving the capital for the first time I had a reason to go to almost every city in Oblivion.

Of course the whole "being towed around like a dog on a leash" debate concerning Oblivion, and many other games for that matter, is one that has been going on ever since the game got released and it all comes down to personal preference. I've never finished an Ultima game because I, to this day, still have absolutely no idea what I'm supposed to accomplish or how I'm to go about doing it. Some people like being given free reigns to do whatever they want, I just stop and ask the question: Why should I? In my opinion, Oblivion was better at providing a common binding thread throughout the entire game than Morrowind was and that is why I was able to finish Oblivion and not Morrowind.

But, to each his own.
 
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In Oblivion I sat down and started playing and didn't stop until there were no more quests in my journal and only THEN did I realize that I had spent more than 300 hours on the game.

there wasn't really any mods worth mentioning yet, so I guess it was basically the Vanilla version I played.


So it never really bothered you that all the enemies were always the same level as you, and that the loot they carried leveled up with you? Or did you not really notice those things?

I'm just asking out of curiosity because I've never played very far into Oblivion and I'm still debating whether or not I'm going to use mods or play vanilla when I finally start a serious playthrough.
 
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I was more driven to explore every nook and cranny in Morrowind, I'm an explorer at heart. The caves and various temples and such strewn across the land were little mini-goals for me that needed to be conquered. The monsters within needed to be eradicated, they held specific loot and secrets that needed to be unveiled. Once they were, I felt my work was done. It gave me a sense of completion, I had truly conquered the land. They were also not pointed out to me, I had to comb the land in search of specific places.

In Oblivion, there are similar dens and such scattered about, but for the most part there is no conquering them. They respawn enemies, loot, and so on, and most of them are non-specific in the nature of their contents. Basically, theyre random dungeon generators, as opposed to the crafted dungeons of MW. There is no real search for specific places in Oblivion, as there is in Morrowind, since there is a map thing which shows you where things exactly are. Oblivions dungeons do have traps, which can be fun, and I'm not saying theyre entirely bad. I do like both games, but I would have to say that I felt I made more of a difference in Morrowind when everything's said and done.
 
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So it never really bothered you that all the enemies were always the same level as you, and that the loot they carried leveled up with you? Or did you not really notice those things?

The way I see it is that Bethesda listened to the criticism they got for Morrowind regarding the issue I mentioned earlier, that about halfway through the game, you're basically invincible and even Golden Saints and Deadra are but kittens for you to kick around as you see fit. The level scaling system was the result and though certainly not perfect, it is a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

Even though the punishment for not picking a combat style and developing it increases as you level up, the level scaling still manages to provide the player with a challenge for much longer than Morrowind did. Sure, by the end you're still pretty much untouchable but that is the same for most RPGs and it took a lot longer to get to that point this time around.

The loot problem is indeed a valid point. In my case, I leveled pretty slowly so by the time every highway man was wearing Glass Armour I had already collected my complete set and the abundance of costly loot is outweighed by the limitations of the stock you need to buy, like arrows. All of the unique items in the game are pretty much quest items, so they are not really affected by this issue and the only other really valuable loot are the portal hearts which you use to enhance your armour/weapons and since there is one per portal, they are not affected either.

Then again I solve quests for the solving's sake, not the reward/loot in the end, so that is probably also a reason why it didn't really bother me much.
 
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Well,i totally disagree with you fatb.You say Bethesda heard the criticism about being demigod in morrowind in the middle of the game and they created level scaling wich was a move to the right direction.But,with this solution you were a demigod from the start in Oblivion.You could be grand champion in all cyrodil(arena) from the first level!!!This is just an example,and there are more.
Of course this is just opinions and since you enjoyed the game i'm very happy for you
 
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When I said demigod, I meant being virtually untouchable. Even a Golden Saint would hardly ever land a blow on me by the time I stopped playing Morrowind and even if they did hit, the damage was so minor that I had basically regenerated all damage before I was hit again. I could almost go take a leak in the middle of a fight and come back to mob up afterwards (slight exaggeration but not by much).

I actually tried going up against the Grey Champion at a very low level and it took him no more than a single hit to put my lights out. That is hardly what I call being a demigod. I'm not saying it can't be done. Heck, I remember tales of a Monk character in Baldur's Gate 2 that had his Quivering Palm connect when he used it against a dragon and BAM! it was dead. But a lucky blow is not the same as being a demigod and winning against an opponent that can flatten you with a single hit is either by luck, by cheating/exploiting a weakness or by being skilled.

Perhaps there is a trick to beating certain adversaries that doesn't depend on your level that I don't know about but I do know that I can't count all the times I had to reload because I failed to "fish out" one opponent at a time and consequently found myself surrounded by 2 or 3 baddies that made minced meat out of me. On the other hand, I rarely felt like I simply couldn't win no matter what I did, so yes, to ME the level scaling was indeed a step in the right direction.
 
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purpleblob said:
1. what morrowind mods can you guys recommend to me to make the game more interesting?

2. which one is better? morrowind or oblivion and why?

1) That can only be answered if you specify which parts of the game that bore you. I played with only some cosmetic and bugfix mods besides the official ones.

2) I personally found Morrowind vastly more enjoyable (spent hundreds of hours on it compared to less than twenty for Oblivion). It simply has a lot more to do, and the guild questlines that play a big part for me are much longer (and there are enough guilds in the game to justify a replay). The combat system stinks though, and Oblivion does some things better. IMHO some of the strong and weak points of the games

MW:
+ Lots of quests (this weighs VERY heavily for me)
+ Quests that show a web of interlinked politics
+ Varied world
+ The low population density is believable since one is on a frontier island
+ Replayability through quantity
+ More character customisation options through more skills and equipment (another biggie for me)
+ Smaller dungeons (this is a matter of taste, I like it as I am a surface dweller by nature) with occasional unique loot.
- Unbalanced (like all ES games it is easy to become a jack of all trades, but IMHO this problem isnt that big if you roleplay and specialize your characters). Partially moddable.
- Awful combat (hold down a mouse button and hit your enemy based on luck and your combat stat). Moddable?
- Mostly linear quests with little branching and a world that doesnt recognize most of your achievements. Not moddable.
- Grinding to improve your skills. Moddable.
- Too much walking. Not moddable.
- Static NPCs that just stand there all day long reduces immersion. Moddable?
- Crashes a lot (at least for me...). Not moddable.

Oblivion
+ Looks good and doesnt require all that much hardware:p
+ Some good quests
+ NPC schedules add to immersion
+ Fast travel to visited locations saves a lot of boring walking time. I wish more games had this.
+ Technical polish. Crashes very rarely. Short loading times.
- Tonnes of interface issues on the PC in particular. Partially moddable.
- A quest compass that railroads the quests and unfortunately is necessary since there arent enough other hints in the game. Integral to the quest design and not really moddable.
- Fewer quests. Moddable but fan made quests cant substitute the quality of professional content.
- too many escort quests that are hopeless due to AI and enemies scaling up much more than the allies... Partially moddable?
- Mostly linear quests with little branching and a world that doesnt recognize most of your achievements. Not moddable.
- Awful combat, but this time action based arcadish such (some like it though). Moddable?
- Unbalanced, level scaling makes the game harder as you level up and some builds (such as thief types) are simply not viable at high levels when the enemies have thousands of hitpoints. While MW is unbalanced in that jacks of all trades are godly, Oblivion makes outright punishes specialists. Partially moddable
- Physics and AI bugs due to a potentially interesting being misused and badly tuned. Walk past a shelf and watch all the items fall to the floor. See guards catching each other in friendly fire and kill each other. Have the characters you escort run in between your sword and the enemy. Not moddable.
- Awful dungeons that are random recombinations of dungeon blocks (the same as ancient Daggerfall) and have random enemies and content. Not moddable.
- Voice acting consisting of five or so actors. Sean Bean does a good job, but the sheer repetition of retarded suburbian voices (I truly hate cats that sound like Whoopi Goldberg) hurts immersion. Patrick Stewarts part is pointless as he only is in the intro. Not moddable?

They share some flaws and strong points. Both follow the TES tradition of a free roaming world with weak NPC interaction and storyline, e g sandboxing. Neither is all that immersive. If your problem is with that genre then neither game is likely to appeal to you.

And is moddable a word? :)

Morrowind is vast, fairly empty and populated by a huge population of more or less lifeless drones and a few quest giving NPCs. It is the perfect setting for creating your own kind of experience but you have to be creative because the game is more or less one huge sandbox with rather limited incentive to continue the main story (or any side story for that matter).

Oblivion, on the other hand, is packed with a staggering amount of vastly different quests, from tiny fed-ex type quests to huge undertakings, taking you all around the landmass. Some quests are of the fairly straight forward, well known type while others are truly surprising, both in terms of twists but also in their execution. In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.

I also disagree with your analysis. I'm actually pretty sure that Morrowind has a significantly larger number of quests. It certainly has many more guild quests (and guilds). In contrast to you I quit Oblivion because I found that there was too little to do (unless joining every guild I ran out of quests after 15-20 hours, and I was bored due to some interface issues such as the compass breaking the immersion of many quests). I'd grant that some (but far from all) of the Oblivion quests are more interesting than the MW ones though.

Exploration of dungeons is pointless as the dungeons are random recombinations of dungeon blocks. The only variety is in the dungeon type, e g if it is a vampire cave, a monster cave, or a bandit cave.
 
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well Im in VERY early stage of the game.. where I cant run fast, i cant jump well, I cant cast spells much and I cant kill things well. I got my butt kicked good by nix hounds in some cave where random ppl attack me. and yes combat system just bores me so much. I suppose that cant be fixed though. is there some mod that helps me level up faster? I would like to fight vampires or some more impressive monsters. also.... npcs irritates me a lot, so I want to get powerful enough so I can whack ppl in the face and run away without getting killed.... ;) I mean after all you can do WHATEVER you want in this game... thats the best thing about non-linear game like morrowind :D I do wish to turn into vampire at one stage too....
 
I have about 50 hours in both of them, so I'm not exactly an Elder Scrolls fan (didn't like Daggerfall, either). That said, I'm not one of the irrational haters either, so perhaps my opinion has some value.

Ultimately, I liked Oblivion better for "gameplay" reasons. I simply hated the insipid combat in Morrowind. OB's combat isn't perfect but it's much, much better and the ranged combat is quite enjoyable. I also thought OB had better dialogue, better quests and some of the short storylines (Brotherhood, Thieves Guild) are pretty good, if linear and devoid of choices.

I also didn't connect with the alien landscape of MW, although it's much more creative than the generic fantasy of OB. I'd also agree the lore and houses are much more interesting in MW...I just couldn't enjoy them.

Francesco's fixed the scaling debacle in OB and I quite enjoyed finishing the Brotherhood and Thieves Guild but that was enough.

So, OB has improved gameplay elements (scaling aside) and MW has a more interesting setting, even though I didn't really like it.
 
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I spent 100 hours with MW avoiding combat and the main plotline. I rose to the top of a house and a guild or two and basically achieved nothing. When something new came along I left the game and never returned. With OB, I finished the main quest and all the guild quests except those for the assassins. YAWN...........boring and nothing meant anything!! I MUCH prefer Arena and Daggerfall.
 
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I found Morrowind very beautiful, atmospheric and immersive for the first 20-30 hours. As Sammy pointed out, exploring is a major highlight. The first time you come across a Daedric ruin, a dwemer fortress, or a Telvani mushroom house (or whatever the heck they called it) it's a jaw dropping experience. If I had stopped playing after 30 hours, I would probably have nothing but fond memories of Morrowind.

Unfortunately, I didn't stop. Being a completist (though Bethesda has done much to cure me of that affliction), I was determined to play through all the guilds I had joined, as well as the main quest. As a result, my memories of Morrowind center mostly on the sheer number of uninteresting, repetitive dialogs, the astronomical number of uninteresting, repetitive fed-ex quests, the glut of uninteresting, repetitive combat...you get the idea. Even exploration loses its luster after a while. Once you've seen 3 or 4 Daedric shrines, they all start to look very much the same. Sure there are a few exceptions, but by and large, they're modeled after the same template, and you know pretty much exactly what you're going to find when you enter one.
I don't think I've wasted so many hours on a game since...well Daggerfall. If a genie were to show up and offer to give me those hours of my life back, I would definitely say yes.
 
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well Im in VERY early stage of the game.. where I cant run fast, i cant jump well, I cant cast spells much and I cant kill things well. I got my butt kicked good by nix hounds in some cave where random ppl attack me. and yes combat system just bores me so much. I suppose that cant be fixed though. is there some mod that helps me level up faster? I would like to fight vampires or some more impressive monsters. also.... npcs irritates me a lot, so I want to get powerful enough so I can whack ppl in the face and run away without getting killed.... ;) I mean after all you can do WHATEVER you want in this game... thats the best thing about non-linear game like morrowind :D I do wish to turn into vampire at one stage too....

Grinding is truly a problem in the beginning:(

There are mods that affect how long it takes to improve skills, though I dont know the names of them. Without modding the following goes (you might know this already:))

Improving your skills is dependent on use, and only "successful" use counts, so in the beginning your combat skill will improve slowly as you miss a lot (due to low skill). Once you have 40 points or so you will improve faster, and once you reach a much higher skill things will slow down again as improvement becomes more "expensive". If you use a custom build with major skill for the weapon you want to use (spears, hand to hand, and short blade are weakest, the others are fine) you'll start off around that level.

Armour skills are upgraded by getting hit while wearing the relevant armour. The starting area has low level enemies like mudcrabs and rats that can "train" you without killing you fast.

Jumping and running skills (acrobatics/athletics) are trained simply by jumping and running, and since these skills always succeed they will go up very fast. Just press the key for "always run" upon loading a savegame and jump a lot. It does lower your stamina and make you susceptible to knockdowns though.

The human enemies in dungeons are AFAIK not level scaled in MW and are generally too strong for a level 1 character unless that character is a fighter type. The bandit cave outside Seyda Neen and the first dungeon that you are sent to in the main quest are probably the easiest "human" dungeons.

And one little Elder Scrolls oddity: Due to level scaling your enemies become stronger as you level up, so the strongest character might be one that doesnt have his used skills as major/minor skills. A level 1 character with skill levels of 70 will be much stronger relative to his enemies than a level 10 character with skill levels around 70. The caveats (for Morrowind) are that a higher level does give you more hitpoints, and that some enemies (notably humans) arent scaled to your level.
 
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