Mass Effect 2 - Review Flood #1

So I guess I'm the only one who's pleased that ME2 is getting great reviews.

Anderson said:

So I guess I'm the only one who's pleased that ME2 is getting great reviews.

Click to expand...

We are pleased sure, but it is an affront to the trdition of critique the way these sites do things. In other words, it isn't about the game but rather about the reviews.

joxer said:

Am I crazy to expect 11/10 in the near future?
Looks as if all those sites are fighting among themselves who'll give a highest score to ME2.

Click to expand...

If by near future you mean earlier today, then no:

http://www.gamingnexus.com/Article/Mass-Effect-2/Page5/Item2519.aspx

4.5 out of 5? GamerPro is a hater site!!

If a game's score is 9.95 out of 10 then it's going to show up as 10/10. You don't have to be perfect for a 10.

txa1265 said:

We are pleased sure, but it is an affront to the trdition of critique the way these sites do things. In other words, it isn't about the game but rather about the reviews.

Click to expand...

That's a part of it, but I think it has something to do with a PC-centric site like this, where people tend to look down on Mass Effect, say it's "not a real RPG" and all that. Would there have been the same level of complaining if Risen or Dragon Age got 10/10's? Doubt it. Go to console sites and you see people celebrating, eager to get hold of the game, enthusiastic, and sharing early impressions. Come here and it's a bunch of grousing.

Anderson said:

Would there have been the same level of complaining if Risen or Dragon Age got 10/10's? Doubt it.

Click to expand...

If Dragon Age was scoring higher than Baldur's Gate II there would have been mass rioting ... as it is there has been a general chorus here about score inflation, something I don't see so much on the console sites I visit. It seems much more about high scores validating choice of console as well as game choice, whereas PC gamers inherently have a longer view with the platform.

Anderson said:

Would there have been the same level of complaining if Risen or Dragon Age got 10/10's? Doubt it.

Click to expand...

Have to disagree with you on that one. I don't think anyone here thought Risen was even close to a 10/10, and most seem to agree that DA was far from perfect.

Well I have actually played this(unlike many of you rpg experts) and it is good...I haven't played alot so I can't get into what is bad etc..(which some of you are waiting for badly.) But the opening was amazing, I loved it...I'm not going to get into but it looked amazing.


Like I have said many times before the jaded rpg fan is getting old and stale. Dragon age was fun for me, if it wasn't for you? Thats your problem, just don't try to tell me what is and isn't an rpg. That would make you a hack.

JDR13 said:

Have to disagree with you on that one. I don't think anyone here thought Risen was even close to a 10/10, and most seem to agree that DA was far from perfect.

Click to expand...

No, no, I think you misunderstand. I am talking about on the day of a game's release, prior to anyone actually playing it. I'm noticing everyone grousing about the review scores, with no one pleased or enthusiastic that the scores are this good.

I'm suggesting that the conversation would have been very different, if a PC-centric game like Dragon Age or Risen got a bunch of 10/10s and was averaging 9.5 in the reviews (again, at release, prior to anyone playing it). I don't think you'd see the complaints and negativism you see here — probably a little conversation about inflated scores, but a lot of people happy and excited that the game was that solid, and enthusiastic about playing it for themselves.

Not that I am complaining. I'm just pointing it out. Every site has its biases. I just found the contrast interesting between this site (grousing) and the console-focused sites (where the general mood is "woohoo!").

Ok I see your point. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that ME2 is a sequel though. Perhaps people already have a perception of ME2 that was influenced by their experience with ME.

Personally, I think ME is better than what the general opinion around here seems to be.

Anderson said:

So I guess I'm the only one who's pleased that ME2 is getting great reviews.

Click to expand...

You are not. Lots of hateraide drinkers here. Yes the game feels like an interactive cinema experience at places... the *right* places, like on the main quest? What are people bitching about? The inventory in ME1 was largely pointless with tons of redundant drops and a pointless endless supply of Omni Gel so why bother? Great game with it, great without it. I think I bought 2 objects in the game from vendors and I didnt need those. Didnt need more than 2 Med Gels but had slots for 7. None of these things had any effect on the experience. The 150 object limit had a negative effect on the experience though - if they have eliminated that somehow then bring it on!

The plot, action, dialog and consequences were the core strengths. I hope they developed ME2 accordingly.

I agree with JDR, and also think part of it is that for many folks Dragon Age represents (to an extent, 'dumbed down' opinions aside for the moment) a direction that most PC gamers support for the RPG genre, while Mass Effect tends more towards the 'console action game' style (like Oblivion and Fallout 3) that many PC RPG fans would NOT to see held as the standard bearer for 'what makes a good RPG in 2010'.

I'm happy the scores are good (though probably inflated). Dragon Age is more my preference, but a good shooty-RPG can be a lot of fun.

I guess I'm not gushing because it's exactly what I expected. I liked Mass Effect enough (though I found plenty of flaws) - BioWare will address those (they always iterate), so high scores is exactly what I expected. When my Steam preorder is finally active, I expect to have a lot of fun, alongside some old-man grumbling about linear corridors and the like.

What I don't get, is the guy earlier in the thread who is striking BioWare off his list, despite preordering ME2. I have no idea why you'd expect ME2 to be anything other than a refinement/development of ME1.

You've got to hand it to Bethesda and Bioware. They both know how to release AAA titles with something to please pretty much everybody. Even the detractors are going to play it.

txa1265 said:

I think part of it is that for many folks Dragon Age represents a direction that most PC gamers support for the RPG genre, while Mass Effect tends more towards the 'console action game' style that many PC RPG fans would NOT like to see held as the standard ….

Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that.

That's sort of my point...it's why you see the lack of enthusiasm and picking at review scores. People aren't exactly rooting for the game to do well. In fact, I'm imagining that some people sound almost disappointed, because in a way, Mass Effect represents a threat, or at least a trend they dislike.

To me, it's just one more good RPG to play. I enjoyed Mass Effect a lot, and I'm sure I'll enjoy #2 as well. I'm going to wait a few months before picking it up, though, because I'm not ready for another Bioware game this soon after Dragon Age. There is a certain sameness to them...

Great guns what an opening!! That's got to be the best "learn how to walk" tutorial I've ever seen. It also has a mighty good excuse for why your high level character suddenly forgets all his/her/? skills. It even gave me an excuse to touch up my character's appearance a bit (though it could have provided better tools for doing that).

As for role playing - yeah, it's pretty light on that so far. So what else is new? It still lets you pick a class and develop your skills. More importantly, it lets you make choices that affect how the game goes. It may be RPG-lite when you compare to Dragon Age but it has stronger RPG elements than something like Deus Ex.

Anderson said:

Yeah, I get that.

That's sort of my point…it's why you see the lack of enthusiasm and picking at review scores. People aren't exactly rooting for the game to do well. In fact, I'm imagining that some people sound almost disappointed, because in a way, Mass Effect represents a threat, or at least a trend they dislike.

To me, it's just one more good RPG to play. I enjoyed Mass Effect a lot, and I'm sure I'll enjoy #2 as well. I'm going to wait a few months before picking it up, though, because I'm not ready for another Bioware game this soon after Dragon Age. There is a certain sameness to them…

Click to expand...

But is there anything wrong about that, though?

I mean, clearly most of us here are great fans of the RPG genre - and while most of us also recognize that Mass Effect was a quality title, I think we agree that it was less RPG than originally expected.

It was very much a beautiful interactive movie - and in that way, it's great. But since it's not really a CRPG, it's not what some of us are looking for.

Beyond that, it was saturated with flaws that really had nothing to do with it not being an RPG - at least as I see it. Even so, it was hailed as brilliant and got high praise everywhere.

The trend today from the gaming media is to lavish praise upon AAA productions, no matter what they're really like in terms of evolution. I mean, GTA4 was perfect, Oblivion was perfect, and so on. They were FAR FAR FAR from perfect if you look at them objectively - and that's the source of scepticism more than the title being Mass Effect 2.

It's just another AAA title that gets ridiculous praise - where it's most likely simply a very good game in the 8/10 or 9/10 area. 10/10 is simply non-sensical.

LuckyCarbon said:

Well from the review over at ArsTech I can cross Bioware off my list.

They're not making RPGs anymore, they're making interactive movies for console gamers that can't be bothered with "stats" or "inventories". That's fine, more money, I get it. So much for passion and art and dancing with the who got you there.

I was concerned with how shallow DA:O was, sounds like ME2 is just another action game. I don't know if it's the way the market is going and it was inevitable or if the soulless suits at EA have their hands in this but I think this is the result we all feared when Bioware was assimilated by EA.

Click to expand...

You're angry, but this is nonetheless a pathetic and pretentious comment. I understand from this post that you only like RPGs (and then only a certain kind of RPG) but to insinuate that only that kind of game can be art or made with passion is just mindless arrogance. Without going into a discussion about what does or does not constitute an RPG, I felt I needed to point this out to you.

I always fail to understand how some seem to believe that anyone who would have the audacity (or fried console brains?) to enjoy a game like Mass Effect must be a "console gamer that can't be bothered with stats or inventories." After all, the game is "just another action game." As if action gamers don't have the wits to bother with anything requiring the amazing intellect to tackle a *real* game like a hardcore cRPG.

Oh, excuse my cold tone. It's been happening since the dawn of multi-platform game development and even before that. I agree with Anderson that Mass Effect 2 and its similarly executed RPGs are likely to be perceived as a threat to traditionally-made PC RPGs. I also remember a discussion blaming the current big-budget environment as the culprit. These days it is almost impossible to do an AAA+ title, target a niche market and still not lose money. Dragon Age: Origins is probably the closest to that you've seen in years (and still it gets bad slack as a dumbed-down console kidding game from some people!). Whatever the reasons, I'm glad I'm into multiple genres and platforms and I like high production values. It is true then, maybe, that it's a sad time for those who are stuck in the '90s, still longing for those 2D isometric, turn-based games that had you reading walls of text as you reloaded your latest save continually after a party-member perma-died. I liked those, too.

I've tried ME out and i have to say that i agree with 1up's review.

I don't mind the thermal clip issue that much, but what bugs me the most is the lack of random drops around the world. Would it be so hard to make 3-4 armor sets and put them in certain places along the main story? Maybe 2 more in random planets so you can only find them through extensive exploration? I don't understand how this was overlooked.

Also......I HATE that i cannot access my characters inventory during missions and i only need to find a weapons locker, or what's the name of it. If those two things were fixed the game would be a lot better already.

Anderson said:

Yeah, I get that.
That's sort of my point…it's why you see the lack of enthusiasm and picking at review scores. People aren't exactly rooting for the game to do well. In fact, I'm imagining that some people sound almost disappointed, because in a way, Mass Effect represents a threat, or at least a trend they dislike.

To me, it's just one more good RPG to play. I enjoyed Mass Effect a lot, and I'm sure I'll enjoy #2 as well. I'm going to wait a few months before picking it up, though, because I'm not ready for another Bioware game this soon after Dragon Age. There is a certain sameness to them…

Click to expand...

Interesting... I admit I'm probably one of those people that consider ME as the representative of a trend that I dislike. Yet I also admit that I enjoyed the first game more than most RPGs I've played recently (including Dragon Age which is more 'my kind of thing'), so I'm actually going to buy it as soon as I'm done with Risen.

But I hope that this 'undesirable' trend and the alienation of the more 'hardcore' fanbase will eventually create a need for purer RPGs that will be satisfied with more gutsy games than the almost-there-but-not-quite type such as DA (which I also liked a lot admittedly)
So for me it's win-win.

-also- The fact that the scores are so high is expected and for me it only signifies that Bioware didn't just make a terrible mess - which was very unlikely anyway. I see such scores as 'reserved' by such games.